• mos lore

    “However, this becomes problematic when certain elements are added simply for the sake of upping an artist’s “cool” factor while its being culturally appropriated in a way that is disrespectful”

    lets be honest here, even hip hop artist now here in america don’t ‘respect their source material’.
    white people think it is all some sacred *****.

    also Don’t Hate Me” is more pop rock than hip-hop imo.

    as an African american i rather people use hip hop for this than what it is being used for in america.

    “The music and the artistry of hip hop is fair game, but the aesthetics which particularly belong to African-American culture aren’t meant to be freely transmitted to other cultures, especially to one which doesn’t share a similar history of oppression!”

    GTFO, the clothes don’t mean much my friend.it’s the experiences that shape us.

  • mos lore

    “However, this becomes problematic when certain elements are added simply for the sake of upping an artist’s “cool” factor while its being culturally appropriated in a way that is disrespectful”

    lets be honest here, even hip hop artist now here in america don’t ‘respect their source material’.
    white people think it is all some sacred *****.

    also Don’t Hate Me” is more pop rock than hip-hop imo.

    as an African american i rather people use hip hop for this than what it is being used for in america.

    “The music and the artistry of hip hop is fair game, but the aesthetics which particularly belong to African-American culture aren’t meant to be freely transmitted to other cultures, especially to one which doesn’t share a similar history of oppression!”

    GTFO, the clothes don’t mean much my friend.it’s the experiences that shape us.

  • mos lore

    “However, this becomes problematic when certain elements are added simply for the sake of upping an artist’s “cool” factor while its being culturally appropriated in a way that is disrespectful”

    lets be honest here, even hip hop artist now here in america don’t ‘respect their source material’.
    white people think it is all some sacred *****.

    also Don’t Hate Me” is more pop rock than hip-hop imo.

    as an African american i rather people use hip hop for this than what it is being used for in america.

    “The music and the artistry of hip hop is fair game, but the aesthetics which particularly belong to African-American culture aren’t meant to be freely transmitted to other cultures, especially to one which doesn’t share a similar history of oppression!”

    GTFO, the clothes don’t mean much my friend.it’s the experiences that shape us.

  • mos lore

    “However, this becomes problematic when certain elements are added simply for the sake of upping an artist’s “cool” factor while its being culturally appropriated in a way that is disrespectful”

    lets be honest here, even hip hop artist now here in america don’t ‘respect their source material’.
    white people think it is all some sacred *****.

    also Don’t Hate Me” is more pop rock than hip-hop imo.

    as an African american i rather people use hip hop for this than what it is being used for in america.

    “The music and the artistry of hip hop is fair game, but the aesthetics which particularly belong to African-American culture aren’t meant to be freely transmitted to other cultures, especially to one which doesn’t share a similar history of oppression!”

    GTFO, the clothes don’t mean much my friend.it’s the experiences that shape us.

    • muggle87

      i am so glad that i am not alone about the clothes thing. right now, it just another fashion style.

      like one of my black friend said, “just cause i like to wear preppy outfits doesn’t mean i want to be white. i just like the style.”

      idk when did it become that only a certain race can wear a certain clothes. its ridiculous.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

        I think it becomes a problem when the idols themselves associate those things with being black. I mean I even heard of some idols tanning their skin to give a more authentic look when the song is more hip hop oriented. I think my problem is that they don’t know much about hiphop or black culture but they associate those things with it or think the hiphop in itself is only thing that is black culture when its really black-sub culture like kpop is a korean sub-culture. I mean I’ve heard of Koreans being annoyed a some kpop fans who want to go to Korea because of kpop because that’s all they know. Its kind of the same situation.

  • foladisqus

    Idol rappers always make me laugh. solo acts are better (not always gd) simon d, Tasha, tiger jk, also leesang!

  • foladisqus

    I TOTALLY AGREE!! I WAS SO SUPRISED!!! I was like “this isn’t rap!!!!”

  • David McCready

    “The exaggerated sound effects and reactions in the intro scene with Psy, the huge ring on her finger”
    No, that’s not called Aegyo, that’s called hip hop.  Never seen Flavor Flav?

    There are so many things wrong with the claims of “hip hop” as well as “aegyo” in this article.  And calling Hyuna the first with ICE CREAM completely ignores SAN-E and KARA.  Even if San-E’s MV isn’t considered aegyo (how the heck would it NOT be considered aegyo?) then KARA’s debut album and MVs contained hip hop (in musical style AND the baggy clothes, sideways caps) and aegyo.  And yes, far more than Epik High’s hip hop AND aegyo with their “Don’t Hate Me” MV.

    And while we’re at it, J Rabbit (as well as G.Na) featured on Kim Jin Pyo’s recent album that precedes Ice Cream.  And if J Rabbit isn’t aegyo, you’re smoking something found only in the richest back alleys of Southern California.  And Kim Jin Pyo isn’t hip hop?  Yeah.. go smoke some more.

    But let’s be clear, “sideways cap, bandana, and beanie while showing off her tattoos and bling” does not signify hip hop.  And while yes, Hyuna’s MV and song presents a fairly good colorful parody of hip hop (with the noted aegyo), it’s 5 years after *my* first experience with the mix.  And I don’t even have time to watch all of Fin.K.L MVs to see if there are any “hip hop” elements (or at least that this article says are hip hop elements).

    • mos lore

      “But let’s be clear, “sideways cap, bandana, and beanie while showing off her tattoos and bling” does not signify hip hop”

      thank you 

    • ilikestuffilike

      No “sideways cap, bandana, and beanie while showing of tattoos and bling” does not signify hip hop. What it does signify to me is this lack of “Knowing”(if that makes since) because just when African Americans wore those things it was considered ghetto but as soon as white mmainstream got a hold to it, it was looked at as something cool and hip to wear. Some times I think as afircan americans we need to take a stand on what’s ok and what’s not ok about using things from our culture and stop being passive, sayings things are ok( cuz they don’t know any better)when they’re not

      • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

        Some times I think as afircan americans we need to take a stand on what’s ok and what’s not ok about using things from our culture and stop being passive, sayings things are ok( cuz they don’t know any better)when they’re not

        How does this stop people from association certain fashions with ghetto when black people wear them? Wouldn’t the deconstruction of the “ghetto” perception involve African Americans wearing “sideways cap, bandana, and beanie while showing of tattoos and bling” but with behavior we don’t associate with “ghetto?” 
        Furthermore, why do outsiders think that these things are cool and hip to wear in the first place? Deconstructing those attitudes is more productive than reinforcing that this is forbidden fruit, which only enhances the appeal of appropriation. 

        From the Chinese side, it’s like the association of those particular shoes with foot-binding. If we want to break that perception (and homg it’s a fucking annoying perception) then wouldn’t that involve wearing those shoes in situations that don’t involve any references to small feet preferences, foot binding, and associated misogynistic culture. 
        Claiming those shoes as a grand part of Chinese history, culture, and tradition, and no one else is allowed to use them is not going to help. 

      • David McCready

        Those items are not from your culture.  They far predate the ghettos.   They are items that have existed for hundreds of years already that each cultural group takes and makes their own.  Just because another cultural group is taking something that your cultural group has already taken from somewhere else, doesn’t make it a bad thing.

        • ilikestuffilike

          K, first off I think you need to re-read what I posted. I never once said that those things where from my culture. No where in my post do I say that at all. What I said was that as AA we need to start taking a stand on what’s ok and what’s not ok instead of just seating their passively and letting things go. Saying certain people get passes because they don’t know any better. If somehow you took that to mean I was talking about some stupid ass atricles of clothing then I don’t know really what to say to you.

  • severely

    Wow. SB really hates “I Got a Boy.” If you’re going to argue that this is cultural misappropriation, it would help if the article started with a respect for all cultures. How is it not disrespectful to ignore what aegyo actually stands for in Korean culture and water it down to being simply “unquestioned submissiveness”? I also find it eyeroll worthy to pretend that using hip-hop beats and wearing bandannas equals attempting to appropriate black culture. SNSD clearly isn’t going for that in any way. They are following the trend of current pop music, which is present in both kpop and western pop (ever heard of Nicki Minaj, Lady Gaga, Ke$ha, Katy Perry, Cher Lloyd anyone?).

    Reducing it to an argument of who has a right to wear these clothes is ridiculous. Black culture isn’t the only style that uses things like bandannas, lots of jewelry, caps, beanies, etc. If anything: where was this vitriol when T-ara did “Yayaya” where Native Americans can lay claim to the deep symbolism attached to headdresses, feathers, and turquoise jewelry, and T-ara was clearly appropriating their culture and their culture alone? (If you did this article, then SB search doesn’t show it.)

    Arguably, it is MORE offensive to see groups that are actually making serious attempts at emulating black culture, but are simply treating it as simply bandannas, tattoos, swag and making certain facial expressions or body gestures, while at the same time, the members grew up in the middle class and wouldn’t know hardship that inspired many elements of black culture if it kicked them in the face.

    • takasar1

      exactly the point i intended to make until i came across your comment. hypocrisy and double standards are an unfortunate feature of seoulbeats, where half of the writers seem to delude themselves into thinking that the problems present in kpop are unique from most other music industries around the world. “The industry has shown time and again that it can care less about
      polarizing foreign cultures through its insensitive representations of African-Americans, Native-Americans, Indians, and Caucasians.” stupid comment to be honest. so other music markets are not like this right? kpop is the only sub-culture where it is possible to see entertainment agencies obsessed with making money right? the author seems to think that hip hop is stuck in the 1990s when artists actually seem to have bought respect to the genre, when it was possible to defend hip hop on an intellectual level.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

        “Arguably, it is MORE offensive to see groups that are actually making serious attempts at emulating black culture, but are simply treating it as simply bandannas, tattoos, swag and making certain facial expressions or body gestures, while at the same time, the members grew up in the middle class and wouldn’t know hardship that inspired many elements of black culture if it kicked them in the face”
        I agree BigBang’s Bad Boy MV offended me more than SNSD’s “I Got A Boy”, because they went their for “street cred” to portray being a “bad boy” when none of them would really want to live in a place like that or have any idea what its like to live their. 

         “the author seems to think that hip hop is stuck in the 1990s when artists actually seem to have bought respect to the genre, when it was possible to defend hip hop on an intellectual level.”

        This comment is a bit ignorant. Just like kpop idols don’t represent actual Korean hiphop/rap, mainstream hiphop isn’t the only thing out their. Their still plenty of good hiphop in  American music left to defend. Even in mainstream hiphop, Jay Z and Kanye are still around, I mean Kanye may be a douche but hes good at what he does.

        • csh1987

          Are you seriously implying that NYC is the only place on earth where life can be tough? Wtaf!

          We know next to nothing about big bang’s life before they became bb, so your assumption is not only mind-bogglingly stupid, it also illustrates how ridiculous these cultural appropriation claims have become.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

            Where did I say NYC was the only place where life can be tough?No I’m not implying that so you can stop putting words in my mouth. But I’m honestly not going to start with you because I know how this will go, its how all your arguments go. I love how you call my opinion “mind-bogglingly stupid” because you assumed that I assumed something about BB. It’s not stupid, its just not the same as yours, so you can stop with the condescending attitude.Putting someone else’s opinions down does not make your argument more valid, it actually prevents people from seeing your point because how rude you tend to talk to people. I’m honestly done with you, since this is not the first time you’ve talk to me this way.

          • csh1987

            “I agree BigBang’s Bad Boy MV offended me more than SNSD’s “I Got A Boy”, because they went their for “street cred” to portray being a “bad boy” when none of them would really want to live in a place like that or have any idea what its like to live their. ”

            please re-read the above sentence and consider its implications before claiming others are putting words in your mouth.

            also, re-read and understand the difference between calling someone’s assumption stupid and their opinion stupid.

            it’s funny because you seem to have no problems putting words in bigbang’s mouth/mind by clearly stating they wouldn’t want live there or know what it’s like to live there. you’re also happy to read into their intent to film in nyc, completely ignoring that they filmed another mv there at the same time for a song that’s markedly different.

            but why would you take that or other ground realities into account? it makes complete sense to ignore information we do know to posit and assume based on things we don’t. that’s how all you sb armchair intellectuals work. by making blanket assumptions based on limited proof and even less logic to make frail arguments work. and let’s not forget the american elitism that always permeates these posts. and then play the victim when someone bothers to point out the enormous holes in your sociology 101-level arguments and dares to do it does it without satin gloves on.

            i’ve taken to ignoring cultural appropriation posts on this site unless i need a laugh. thank you as always for providing it.

            ps the lecture on my supposed rudeness/condescension was just the icing on the cake.

          • csh1987

            “I agree BigBang’s Bad Boy MV offended me more than SNSD’s “I Got A Boy”, because they went their for “street cred” to portray being a “bad boy” when none of them would really want to live in a place like that or have any idea what its like to live their. ”

            please re-read the above sentence and consider its implications before claiming others are putting words in your mouth.

            also, re-read and understand the difference between calling someone’s assumption stupid and their opinion stupid.

            it’s funny because you seem to have no problems putting words in bigbang’s mouth/mind by clearly stating they wouldn’t want live there or know what it’s like to live there. you’re also happy to read into their intent to film in nyc, completely ignoring that they filmed another mv there at the same time for a song that’s markedly different.

            but why would you take that or other ground realities into account? it makes complete sense to ignore information we do know to posit and assume based on things we don’t. that’s how all you sb armchair intellectuals work. by making blanket assumptions based on limited proof and even less logic to make frail arguments work. and let’s not forget the american elitism that always permeates these posts. and then play the victim when someone bothers to point out the enormous holes in your sociology 101-level arguments and dares to do it does it without satin gloves on.

            i’ve taken to ignoring cultural appropriation posts on this site unless i need a laugh. thank you as always for providing it.

            ps the lecture on my supposed rudeness/condescension was just the icing on the cake.

          • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

            But why would BB choose NYC to film their MV, when there are other cities with the same kind of settings, and not even necessarily overseas? They made those extra expenses because they wanted the fact that it was filmed in NYC to be known, because there are certain connotations to NYC that would become associated with their actions in the MV. 

            I wonder what those connotations could be… 

            I know, it must be Broadway. BB must love them some Book of Mormon and Disney musicals. 

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

            “and then play the victim when someone bothers to point out the enormous holes in your sociology 101-level arguments and dares to do it does it without satin gloves on.”  
            Yeah yeah more rude diarrhea on how Americans are, you just love ranting about this don’t you. Nope don’t mind arguing or even being proven wrong i just have a problem with people who clearly don’t know how to talk to others. Your comments are rude and condescending even when you are not “checking American attitudes”. dares? lol this is the internet its not that hard to call people out on here or anywhere else behind a computer screen.

          • regina_filange

            dude, they didn’t just film it in New York, They filmed it in Williamsburg, an area markedly known for being having a dangerous and strained racial past. The backdrop happens to look that way because of the decades of economic stagnation in that area and of the marginalized immigrant and black communities that have lived there. Incredibly ironic that they choose to film there, having become safer through gentrification, and use it as a backdrop for their emulations of black culture in order to look like thuggish bad boys because appreciating hip hop means emulating stereotypes of black culture, apparently. Even worse- the environment is in no way actually representative of their own experience. The use of a gentrified neighborhood is really a metaphor for black culture appropriation of k-pop in the post-racial world, where it’s okay to emulate stereotypes of black culture because mainstream pop has already exported, exploited, and demeaned hip-hop. 

          • regina_filange

            dude, they didn’t just film it in New York, They filmed it in Williamsburg, an area markedly known for being having a dangerous and strained racial past. The backdrop happens to look that way because of the decades of economic stagnation in that area and of the marginalized immigrant and black communities that have lived there. Incredibly ironic that they choose to film there, having become safer through gentrification, and use it as a backdrop for their emulations of black culture in order to look like thuggish bad boys because appreciating hip hop means emulating stereotypes of black culture, apparently. Even worse- the environment is in no way actually representative of their own experience. The use of a gentrified neighborhood is really a metaphor for black culture appropriation of k-pop in the post-racial world, where it’s okay to emulate stereotypes of black culture because mainstream pop has already exported, exploited, and demeaned hip-hop. 

          • regina_filange

            dude, they didn’t just film it in New York, They filmed it in Williamsburg, an area markedly known for being having a dangerous and strained racial past. The backdrop happens to look that way because of the decades of economic stagnation in that area and of the marginalized immigrant and black communities that have lived there. Incredibly ironic that they choose to film there, having become safer through gentrification, and use it as a backdrop for their emulations of black culture in order to look like thuggish bad boys because appreciating hip hop means emulating stereotypes of black culture, apparently. Even worse- the environment is in no way actually representative of their own experience. The use of a gentrified neighborhood is really a metaphor for black culture appropriation of k-pop in the post-racial world, where it’s okay to emulate stereotypes of black culture because mainstream pop has already exported, exploited, and demeaned hip-hop. 

          • regina_filange

            dude, they didn’t just film it in New York, They filmed it in Williamsburg, an area markedly known for being having a dangerous and strained racial past. The backdrop happens to look that way because of the decades of economic stagnation in that area and of the marginalized immigrant and black communities that have lived there. Incredibly ironic that they choose to film there, having become safer through gentrification, and use it as a backdrop for their emulations of black culture in order to look like thuggish bad boys because appreciating hip hop means emulating stereotypes of black culture, apparently. Even worse- the environment is in no way actually representative of their own experience. The use of a gentrified neighborhood is really a metaphor for black culture appropriation of k-pop in the post-racial world, where it’s okay to emulate stereotypes of black culture because mainstream pop has already exported, exploited, and demeaned hip-hop. 

          • regina_filange

            dude, they didn’t just film it in New York, They filmed it in Williamsburg, an area markedly known for being having a dangerous and strained racial past. The backdrop happens to look that way because of the decades of economic stagnation in that area and of the marginalized immigrant and black communities that have lived there. Incredibly ironic that they choose to film there, having become safer through gentrification, and use it as a backdrop for their emulations of black culture in order to look like thuggish bad boys because appreciating hip hop means emulating stereotypes of black culture, apparently. Even worse- the environment is in no way actually representative of their own experience. The use of a gentrified neighborhood is really a metaphor for black culture appropriation of k-pop in the post-racial world, where it’s okay to emulate stereotypes of black culture because mainstream pop has already exported, exploited, and demeaned hip-hop. 

        • http://twitter.com/babycokes K-popping Dem Pills

          Hmmm, you could be right about the BB wanting to portray the Bad Boy thing by using the NY backdrop, but maybe it could be because it fits the style of music and they thought that it would go well with the song. The song was very hip hop… well more RnB influenced if anything and maybe they wanted to shoot in NY to pay homage to genre and NY is such a easily recognisable place to do that compared to Detroit for e.g. Maybe they just liked the backdrop. Same thing could be said about Blue, the backdrop went very well with the song as the video gave off the same vibe as the song so they complimented each other well and looked very good… Just a thought :)

        • http://twitter.com/babycokes K-popping Dem Pills

          Hmmm, you could be right about the BB wanting to portray the Bad Boy thing by using the NY backdrop, but maybe it could be because it fits the style of music and they thought that it would go well with the song. The song was very hip hop… well more RnB influenced if anything and maybe they wanted to shoot in NY to pay homage to genre and NY is such a easily recognisable place to do that compared to Detroit for e.g. Maybe they just liked the backdrop. Same thing could be said about Blue, the backdrop went very well with the song as the video gave off the same vibe as the song so they complimented each other well and looked very good… Just a thought :)

        • http://twitter.com/babycokes K-popping Dem Pills

          Hmmm, you could be right about the BB wanting to portray the Bad Boy thing by using the NY backdrop, but maybe it could be because it fits the style of music and they thought that it would go well with the song. The song was very hip hop… well more RnB influenced if anything and maybe they wanted to shoot in NY to pay homage to genre and NY is such a easily recognisable place to do that compared to Detroit for e.g. Maybe they just liked the backdrop. Same thing could be said about Blue, the backdrop went very well with the song as the video gave off the same vibe as the song so they complimented each other well and looked very good… Just a thought :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003152026637 Alex Huszagh

      However, aegyo is a sort of submissiveness that is accepted mainstream courtesy of Confucian traditions. There is more backlash against those who try to own their sexuality than those who submit to it for women. It is unnecessarily boiled down, but the main points are still fairly valid. Albeit, I would argue that BigBang is a worse offender, but that these are still valid concerns.

      And about T-ara, they don’t need to respond to every transgression, just those that reach them or that they feel fit.

      Also it’s not unique to Kpop, not at all, but calling it out in Kpop when they focus on Kpop isn’t necessarily hypocrisy.

    • Gaya_SB

      With regards to appropriation of Native American cultures, there’s this: http://seoulbeats.com/2012/08/k-pop-and-cultural-appropriation-cool-culture/
      Further discourse on K-pop and hip hop: http://seoulbeats.com/2012/08/k-pops-disconnect-with-authentic-hip-hop-culture/

  • severely

    Wow. SB really hates “I Got a Boy.” If you’re going to argue that this is cultural misappropriation, it would help if the article started with a respect for all cultures. How is it not disrespectful to ignore what aegyo actually stands for in Korean culture and water it down to being simply “unquestioned submissiveness”? I also find it eyeroll worthy to pretend that using hip-hop beats and wearing bandannas equals attempting to appropriate black culture. SNSD clearly isn’t going for that in any way. They are following the trend of current pop music, which is present in both kpop and western pop (ever heard of Nicki Minaj, Lady Gaga, Ke$ha, Katy Perry, Cher Lloyd anyone?).

    Reducing it to an argument of who has a right to wear these clothes is ridiculous. Black culture isn’t the only style that uses things like bandannas, lots of jewelry, caps, beanies, etc. If anything: where was this vitriol when T-ara did “Yayaya” where Native Americans can lay claim to the deep symbolism attached to headdresses, feathers, and turquoise jewelry, and T-ara was clearly appropriating their culture and their culture alone? (If you did this article, then SB search doesn’t show it.)

    Arguably, it is MORE offensive to see groups that are actually making serious attempts at emulating black culture, but are simply treating it as simply bandannas, tattoos, swag and making certain facial expressions or body gestures, while at the same time, the members grew up in the middle class and wouldn’t know hardship that inspired many elements of black culture if it kicked them in the face.

  • Guest

    .

  • Bianca

    Exactly!
    “The industry has shown time and again that it can care less about polarizing foreign cultures through its insensitive representations of African-Americans, Native-Americans,Indians, and Caucasians.”

    I totally agree with this point…but I don’t think the fusion of aegyo and hiphop necessarily indicates cultural insensitivity. Using aegyo is a form of exploitation (by which, I mean use for profit), but I don’t think it’s misappropriation in SNSD’s case.

    ( I meant this as a reply to severely)

    • David McCready

      Edit to the edit. :P

      • Bianca

        I’m not sure if my post implied that I felt otherwise, but I agree with you. 

        • David McCready

          I simply misread it originally. :)

  • http://twitter.com/markramos209 mark ramos

    .

  • Brigid_AnDarrach

    It’s all music and musical expression.  It’s not “appropriating another culture”, it’s exploring music and style.  Saying that they can’t appreciate and elaborate on an existing style of music or dress (and that to do so is offensive) is just silly.  Just because it originated somewhere else for different reasons doesn’t mean that there’s a copyright, or that there should be.  Hip-Hop is a genre, and its origins are often put by the wayside, just like with any other genre of music.  Most American hip-hop doesn’t pay homage to it’s roots nowadays, so why get all up in arms because the Koreans are experimenting with it?

    EDIT: I, honestly, find it much more offensive to say that someone can’t dress or sing the way they want because they’re not from the right ethnic group or background than the points this article is making.

    • leahtaro

      Preach.
      There is no copyright to any music genre or to music in general. Hiphop may originate from the African-Americans who wants to cry out their social injustices, doesn’t mean hiphop should be concentrated there and along those lines. Music exists to be experimented and explored. It could be mixed across genres. Without it, music will never evolve to what it is now.

    • leahtaro

      Preach.
      There is no copyright to any music genre or to music in general. Hiphop may originate from the African-Americans who wants to cry out their social injustices, doesn’t mean hiphop should be concentrated there and along those lines. Music exists to be experimented and explored. It could be mixed across genres. Without it, music will never evolve to what it is now.

    • leahtaro

      Preach.
      There is no copyright to any music genre or to music in general. Hiphop may originate from the African-Americans who wants to cry out their social injustices, doesn’t mean hiphop should be concentrated there and along those lines. Music exists to be experimented and explored. It could be mixed across genres. Without it, music will never evolve to what it is now.

    • Sentimental Muffin

      “Hip-Hop is a genre, and its origins are often put by the wayside, just like with any other genre of music.  Most American hip-hop doesn’t pay homage to it’s roots nowadays, so why get all up in arms because the Koreans are experimenting with it?” Words right out of my mouth.
      Sorry I’d just like to piggy back on your comment. The beauty of music is that it is forever changing and being interpreted differently. It’s constantly adapting and inspiring people to create new genres and sub-genres.

  • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

    Kind of tired of the attempts to inflate a mere personal preference against aegyo into this righteous feminist stance everyone should jump on the crusading bandwagon for. “Aegyo implies an unquestioned submissiveness?”  Yeah, no. Waaaaaaay too many counter-examples in the western rap scene alone, some of whom have stated that they were inspired by the bright and colorful shamelessness of Asian pop, which has its own mechanisms of barrier-breaking and empowerment. To ignore those, as “Aegyo and hip hop is contradictory by definition” does, is to take a reductionist stance that ends up reinforcing restrictive gender roles. 

    I can see how the “sideways cap, bandana, and beanie” trend is vexing and disrespectful. It’s the same the other way around, when people don kimonos, hanbok, or qipaos to try and be “exotic.” 
    But that has nothing to do with aegyo. It’s actually more likely for the try-hard groups attempting serious to don those items, especially on the boys’ end. Actually, when aegyo comes into the picture there’s the potential to transcend appropriation into a transformation of hip hop culture itself. Caucasians may have stolen jazz and blues (and subsequently rock ‘n’ roll) from African Americans as well, but I’m not going to condemn Elvis, Judy Garland, and The Beatles because they were cute and happy in their music, contrary to the origins of their genres. Judy in particular represents a form of jazz that stands in stark contrast in presentation compared to her black contemporary Lena Horne, which you can hear when they cover each other’s songs, where even Judy’s most soulful blues renditions could never evoke any sort of black culture. 
    Meanwhile, Gershwin and Jolson were taking jazz and merging with Jewish music tendencies, which was probably offensive to authenticity sticklers of both cultures, hooray! (There has definitely been unease on the Jewish side of things in the commercialization of what they had associated with religion, in the likes of “Milk and Honey” and “Fiddler on the Roof”) Were the Jews being disrespectful of black culture when they introduced Yiddish elements to the genre? 

    That’s why aegyo hip hop stands apart from simply wearing a sideways cap, bandana, and beanie. Aegyo hip hop is adding something to the music, mixing up the personalities of the style, while simply wearing the fashions is doing nothing new and borrowing the connotations of the fashion. Now, put an aegyo twist on the fashions, like bedazzling the bling or putting profanities in bright sparkly pink, and we’re talking culture innovation and gender role-bending again. 

    Authenticity attitudes are killing older music genres. (RIP classical TT) Don’t let it happen to hip hop.

    • canistillhaveadream2

      “Kind of tired about the attempts to inflate a mere personal preference against aegyo into this righteous feminist stance everyone should jump on the crusading bandwagon for.”

      I thought exactly the same thing, but you worded it way better than I would have done.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

      “Caucasians may have stolen jazz and blues (and subsequently rock ‘n’ roll) from African Americans as well, but I’m not going to condemn Elvis, Judy Garland, and The Beatles because they were cute and happy in their music, contrary to the origins of their genres.”

      I agree with this statement, I’ve talked about this before so I kinda don’t feel like saying it again, I honestly think that this topic is being overdone. But anyways, my problem is more with the fans. Their Oppas and Unnies are cute in bandanas, tattoos, and rapping, but black people doing it is ghetto. Rap has a terrible reputation in the states, just because its black dominated if you ask me. Just rock had a bad reputation in that past when it is black dominated but now that it is more white dominated its not considered devils music anymore. I wouldn’t get mad at Elvis for being a good rock n roll artist but the attitude towards the genre back then I would say was racially motivated.

      • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

        Yes, the politics behind the “stealing” of jazz and rock ‘n’ roll has discussion points, but only in the sense that it was robbing legitimately talented black artists of careers. 
        It’s one thing to say that such-and-such Kpop presentation of hip-hop is poorly done. (Especially with regards to how the K-indie scene has such low breakthrough) It’s another to claim that they have no right to even try because of origins, which is what the article’s tone goes for. Elvis might have replaced a black artist as the safe white alternative, which would be sad, but it doesn’t illegitimize Elvis’s own output or talent.  

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

          I know that’s why I said its more about the fans than anything.

        • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

          BB King also stated that before Elvis came along he played for black only crowds in dive bars for low pay but once Elvis kicked opened the door for black music BB King claimed that His audience became mostly young white kids with disposable incomes and he began playing in bigger venues and making lot more money. He always praised Elvis for being a genuine embassador for black music and not watering it down for white consumption like Pat Boone did in the early years of R&R. Many ppl believe that Elvis stold black music when in fact the type of music Elvis created was a hybrid of pop, blues, bluegrass, gospel, and even opera. Elvis mashed up all the musical influences that he grew up with to create a new genre of music known as rockabilly. That is what the Koreans are doing now. Mashing together the musical influences of the East and West to create their own signature sound and look..

    • CJux

      Funny that you mention the The Beatles in this post. They created “Happiness Is A Warm Gun”, which inspired “Bohemian Rhapsody”.

      …which inspired “I Got a Boy”. 

  • http://twitter.com/catEYEx3 Clairi

    …Seoulbeats, what happened to you? A lot of these newest articles feel like they’re making something out of nothing and just trying to get something to write about…

  • Miyuki

    As much as I like this site, I think, in a effort to criticize and analyze something, the writers tend to overanalyze quite a bit. Clothes are just that–clothes; people like to put too much context into inanimate objects. 
    Going by your logic, wearing a corset should be unnerving as well, since it was a symbol of sexism and oppression for females back then, High heels should be unnerving too, since it was meant to make the person look more powerful than others, which is why it was men who wore it back in the days. Let’s not forget about earrings, which were a symbol for sailors who sailed across the world. Everything has a history, but if you begin putting meaning into these objects, it becomes impossible to every simply wear something because you think it looks good.

    Why can’t we just wear clothes because we think it’s pretty anymore? Why is that every time I wear a bandana on my head (because ONLY African Americans wear that right? No one else is allowed to wear it now because at one point, African Americans wore it for some reason that made it only socially acceptable for them), I have to study the history of how it came to be? Let fashion be fashion and leave history for books.

  • shannie4888

    This forum is a warzone. Everybody is so passionate and I know why.

    I understand what you are saying Mark, but hip-hop is not what it used to be. Obviously you do still have rappers that sing about struggle and oppression, but mainstream hip-hop is largely about materialism, sex, drugs, and excess, so let’s just call that out. While I hated SNSD’s attempt at rapping in “I Got a Boy,” I don’t think that hip-hop as a fashion statement belongs to just Black people. Hip-hop culture has been exported all over the world to nations with all different races and skin tones. Its origin is the Black community, but every culture has taken rap and make it something that works for their society. This includes the artform, the attitude, and the fashion associated with hip-hop.

    In South Korea, while rap can be gritty and explain oppression, it hasn’t reached the same level of freedom as in the US. Tablo acknowledged that S. Korean rappers have the skill, but their context tends to be different because Korea is a conservative place. Aegyo is a part of Korean culture that is supposed to represent innocence and obviously kpop idols have aegyo down pat, so when they experiment with hip-hop, they’re going to integrate it into what they already know. Does this make it criminal? No, it doesn’t. People merge differing musical concepts all the time, plus music is supposed to be experimental. It falls apart when it’s done poorly. Just like “I Got a Boy” is a mess of a song, the concept is not incorporated properly, so everything just completely falls apart because they’re bundled up in a disorganized little package. 

    As for the fashion, a lot of the fashion elements that you mentioned have started in hip-hop and remain staples to represent the art form when all worn together, but clothes don’t belong to anybody. If Kpop groups are going to do something hip-hop inspired, then they want to get the fashion correct to show us the image they are going for. Yes, Koreans can be insensitive to other cultures, but the US has every race/culture under the sun, and we still manage to offend all minorities at some point with inappropriate racial slurs, gestures, etc. Korea is a pretty newly developed country and it doesn’t get a pass for anything discriminatory, racist, or insensitive that it has used to represent other cultures, but let’s try to understand the culture and the history of this very homogeneous country before we point fingers. 

    Overall, I don’t think aegyo and hip-hop can’t mix, but the thing with SNSD’s take on merging the two genres is that they do such a poor job of it, that it reduces hip-hop to a joke and makes aeygo overly nauseating. I think a person can be cute, yet have an edge about them. Mentioning Hyuna and Glam proves this point. Even new group B.A.P has some aegyo when they do hip-hop. SM’s strong point is not hip-hop, so they should probably leave that to another entertainment agency.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_LL4QDJLVFDT2RDIZYBALSE75JE angel29

    Wow.  Ok, first of all, I am Asian.  I find some caucasian and black people’s fashion cool so I imitate them hoping I would look equally cool.  According to this article, I should I go check wikipedia first for the history of such clothing statement, understand them, before I can wear any of them.  Thank you but I’d rather go naked.

    To add, what SNSD did was a poor translation of hiphop + kpop music-wise. Let’s not bring everyone else into their mess by saying no one else can do it right.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BLLNX4PQON22PWYERXPN335MGM Olivia

    After reading articles the past few months, I have come to the conclusion that not only do the members of seoulbeats not understand what feminism is, but now also don’t understand cultural appropriation. And as previous commentors have said before me, stop trying to make your (other writers have done this before as well) hatred against aegyo turn into masquerading it as some kind of anti-feminist construct (which it’s not).

    • Ari

      I don’t think aegyo is absolutely an anti-feminist construct, either (I’ve heard people use it in a non-cloying, affectionate manner), but I can understand where the author was coming from. Even when SNSD was strutting around, laughing with each other in the video, they were singing things like “When will you save me, my prince?” and “Oh no, what should I do when he doesn’t see me as a woman? What should I do?” The helplessness in those lines and the assertiveness in their dance/concept just doesn’t mesh and actually sets them backwards – I mean, they’re fricking SNSD! They’re way past this “I can’t do anything w/o oppa!” crap.

  • ilikestuffilike

    My only problem with the article is that LL cool J is not/was not ever a “gangster rapper”. “Gangster rap” was strictly from the west coast. LL is from the east coast. “Gangster Rap” was talking about things that weren’t happening in new York. And of course since it was talking about the violence that was happening, white mianstream media took it and called it “gangster rap” and made it public enemy number one.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

    THANK YOU SEOULBEATS FOR ONCE AGAIN REASSURING ME THAT I’M NOT ALONE. Most of the commenters on this article who are upset honestly don’t understand what cultural appropriation or the definition of Hip-Hop culture is. Personally, I find it insulting and upsetting that there are commenters who think that Hip-Hop culture is about, to quote one of the comments below, “materialism, sex, drugs, and excess.”  While we definitely should call out American Rap music for what it has transformed into, it doesn’t excuse the cultural appropriation that is being talked about in this article. Before making any comments about what can and can’t be culturally appropriated, please read a book on Hip-Hop history, on cultural appropriation and on the cultural appropriation of Hip-Hop music. Then you’ll see why some of the things you guys justify liking or doing can be problematic and offend other people (in this case, Black people). Wake up people! Stop being so butt hurt because the writers here are bringing the truth. Also, just as a side comment, Hip-Hop and Rap are not one in the same, Rap is an element of Hip-Hop. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

    THANK YOU SEOULBEATS FOR ONCE AGAIN REASSURING ME THAT I’M NOT ALONE. Most of the commenters on this article who are upset honestly don’t understand what cultural appropriation or the definition of Hip-Hop culture is. Personally, I find it insulting and upsetting that there are commenters who think that Hip-Hop culture is about, to quote one of the comments below, “materialism, sex, drugs, and excess.”  While we definitely should call out American Rap music for what it has transformed into, it doesn’t excuse the cultural appropriation that is being talked about in this article. Before making any comments about what can and can’t be culturally appropriated, please read a book on Hip-Hop history, on cultural appropriation and on the cultural appropriation of Hip-Hop music. Then you’ll see why some of the things you guys justify liking or doing can be problematic and offend other people (in this case, Black people). Wake up people! Stop being so butt hurt because the writers here are bringing the truth. Also, just as a side comment, Hip-Hop and Rap are not one in the same, Rap is an element of Hip-Hop. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

    THANK YOU SEOULBEATS FOR ONCE AGAIN REASSURING ME THAT I’M NOT ALONE. Most of the commenters on this article who are upset honestly don’t understand what cultural appropriation or the definition of Hip-Hop culture is. Personally, I find it insulting and upsetting that there are commenters who think that Hip-Hop culture is about, to quote one of the comments below, “materialism, sex, drugs, and excess.”  While we definitely should call out American Rap music for what it has transformed into, it doesn’t excuse the cultural appropriation that is being talked about in this article. Before making any comments about what can and can’t be culturally appropriated, please read a book on Hip-Hop history, on cultural appropriation and on the cultural appropriation of Hip-Hop music. Then you’ll see why some of the things you guys justify liking or doing can be problematic and offend other people (in this case, Black people). Wake up people! Stop being so butt hurt because the writers here are bringing the truth. Also, just as a side comment, Hip-Hop and Rap are not one in the same, Rap is an element of Hip-Hop. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

    THANK YOU SEOULBEATS FOR ONCE AGAIN REASSURING ME THAT I’M NOT ALONE. Most of the commenters on this article who are upset honestly don’t understand what cultural appropriation or the definition of Hip-Hop culture is. Personally, I find it insulting and upsetting that there are commenters who think that Hip-Hop culture is about, to quote one of the comments below, “materialism, sex, drugs, and excess.”  While we definitely should call out American Rap music for what it has transformed into, it doesn’t excuse the cultural appropriation that is being talked about in this article. Before making any comments about what can and can’t be culturally appropriated, please read a book on Hip-Hop history, on cultural appropriation and on the cultural appropriation of Hip-Hop music. Then you’ll see why some of the things you guys justify liking or doing can be problematic and offend other people (in this case, Black people). Wake up people! Stop being so butt hurt because the writers here are bringing the truth. Also, just as a side comment, Hip-Hop and Rap are not one in the same, Rap is an element of Hip-Hop. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

    THANK YOU SEOULBEATS FOR ONCE AGAIN REASSURING ME THAT I’M NOT ALONE. Most of the commenters on this article who are upset honestly don’t understand what cultural appropriation or the definition of Hip-Hop culture is. Personally, I find it insulting and upsetting that there are commenters who think that Hip-Hop culture is about, to quote one of the comments below, “materialism, sex, drugs, and excess.”  While we definitely should call out American Rap music for what it has transformed into, it doesn’t excuse the cultural appropriation that is being talked about in this article. Before making any comments about what can and can’t be culturally appropriated, please read a book on Hip-Hop history, on cultural appropriation and on the cultural appropriation of Hip-Hop music. Then you’ll see why some of the things you guys justify liking or doing can be problematic and offend other people (in this case, Black people). Wake up people! Stop being so butt hurt because the writers here are bringing the truth. Also, just as a side comment, Hip-Hop and Rap are not one in the same, Rap is an element of Hip-Hop. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

    THANK YOU SEOULBEATS FOR ONCE AGAIN REASSURING ME THAT I’M NOT ALONE. Most of the commenters on this article who are upset honestly don’t understand what cultural appropriation or the definition of Hip-Hop culture is. Personally, I find it insulting and upsetting that there are commenters who think that Hip-Hop culture is about, to quote one of the comments below, “materialism, sex, drugs, and excess.”  While we definitely should call out American Rap music for what it has transformed into, it doesn’t excuse the cultural appropriation that is being talked about in this article. Before making any comments about what can and can’t be culturally appropriated, please read a book on Hip-Hop history, on cultural appropriation and on the cultural appropriation of Hip-Hop music. Then you’ll see why some of the things you guys justify liking or doing can be problematic and offend other people (in this case, Black people). Wake up people! Stop being so butt hurt because the writers here are bringing the truth. Also, just as a side comment, Hip-Hop and Rap are not one in the same, Rap is an element of Hip-Hop. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

    THANK YOU SEOULBEATS FOR ONCE AGAIN REASSURING ME THAT I’M NOT ALONE. Most of the commenters on this article who are upset honestly don’t understand what cultural appropriation or the definition of Hip-Hop culture is. Personally, I find it insulting and upsetting that there are commenters who think that Hip-Hop culture is about, to quote one of the comments below, “materialism, sex, drugs, and excess.”  While we definitely should call out American Rap music for what it has transformed into, it doesn’t excuse the cultural appropriation that is being talked about in this article. Before making any comments about what can and can’t be culturally appropriated, please read a book on Hip-Hop history, on cultural appropriation and on the cultural appropriation of Hip-Hop music. Then you’ll see why some of the things you guys justify liking or doing can be problematic and offend other people (in this case, Black people). Wake up people! Stop being so butt hurt because the writers here are bringing the truth. Also, just as a side comment, Hip-Hop and Rap are not one in the same, Rap is an element of Hip-Hop. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

    THANK YOU SEOULBEATS FOR ONCE AGAIN REASSURING ME THAT I’M NOT ALONE. Most of the commenters on this article who are upset honestly don’t understand what cultural appropriation or the definition of Hip-Hop culture is. Personally, I find it insulting and upsetting that there are commenters who think that Hip-Hop culture is about, to quote one of the comments below, “materialism, sex, drugs, and excess.”  While we definitely should call out American Rap music for what it has transformed into, it doesn’t excuse the cultural appropriation that is being talked about in this article. Before making any comments about what can and can’t be culturally appropriated, please read a book on Hip-Hop history, on cultural appropriation and on the cultural appropriation of Hip-Hop music. Then you’ll see why some of the things you guys justify liking or doing can be problematic and offend other people (in this case, Black people). Wake up people! Stop being so butt hurt because the writers here are bringing the truth. Also, just as a side comment, Hip-Hop and Rap are not one in the same, Rap is an element of Hip-Hop. 

    • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

      And I think that you’re putting too much weight on the importance of music and pop culture in the grand scheme of things. Cultural appropriation can be offensive, but the importance placed in these articles on authenticity, hip hop culture, and the appropriation of it have have focussed on small things like ambiguously unique fashion and blown it up as if it were as offensive as blackface. Or more importantly, the acts that “real” hip hop culture is supposedly calling out. And on that note, is “real” hip hop culture doing anything about those issues they’re supposedly calling out other than making songs about them? There are ALWAYS bigger fish to fry than pop culture, which for all of its influential power, cannot be changed from merely surface pressure, criticizing the end products. It’s one thing to observe problematic elements in pop culture and use it as evidence of problems in the population that produced it, (“T-ara disrespected Native Americans”) but these articles condemn the pop itself. (“SNSD disrespected hip hop culture”) Instead of reading a book on hip hop history, I’d rather read a book on racial relations history, of which then hip hop history may play a part as one avenue of expression. (and not usually the one that made the difference.) 

      In addition, assuming that these “offenses” are truly offensive, the lack of calling out what the western mainstream rap and hip-hop scene on what it has turned into is a problem, because the article acts like Kpop isn’t taking these try-hard elements from mainstream western hip-hop and rap culture. If one mainstream is imitating another mainstream that it perceives as the original, responsibility on the original is heavy for giving false perceptions to the imitator. 

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

        People are constantly calling out western mainstream rap music, I don’t understand why we need to talk about that issue instead of talking about the mixing of aegyo and rap. I sincerely thank you for your comment on authenticity and I think that’s probably something I need to explore some more…whether or not issues of authenticity are playing a role with my bias. But for now I’ll just say that while I understand in the “grand scheme of things” there are bigger issues than music and pop culture, for some people, like me, this is our life. It’s what I’m studying and writing about at school so articles like this mean a lot to me.

        • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

          There needs to be some acknowledgement at the point at which the reason why Kpop thinks these things are cool and edgy is because the American mainstream does, too. 

          And classical music means a lot to me. I absolutely hate a lot of the times Kpop crams a classical excerpt into their songs and hip hops it up to boot, but I’m not going to decry it as a culturally offensive problem. Otherwise man, I’d hate America so much for appropriating Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture for their own Independence Day. 

    • shannie4888

      I’m Black and I’m the person who said what you quoted. Now, I didn’t say that is what all hip-hop is about. Obviously, you do have music that still represents the oppression and the struggle of Black people in the inner city. However, lets call a spade a spade. Mainstream hip-hop depicts mostly excess. You turn on the TV and that is what you’ll mostly see. Yes, I can listen to other hip-hop besides what’s on the TV, but I mentioned mainstream hip-hop because that is what’s mostly exported to other countries. Overseas, they know the rappers that are visible, not the ones who stay mainly underground. 

      I know what hip-hop is all about, but I think the writer came off like its impossible to blend aegyo and hip-hop elements to create something that works in Korea. We are talking about hip-hop in Korea and that is why the focus of our lens need to change. We cannot just use our cultural interpretation of hip-hop and slap it on that label for another country. It won’t work because that view is very one-dimensional. Hip-hop has been exported everywhere in the world and once it went beyond the borders of this country, it gave individuals in other countries the license to use it in a way that is culturally and socially acceptable for their society. Koreans are not going to be rapping about hardcore things, unless it’s underground, because as we all know, Korean society is conservative. They infuse what they know and what is culturally acceptable (aegyo) into a genre that has an hard edge.

      Koreans like things a certain way. Hip-hop can be gritty, sexy, raw, and unfiltered. Well guess what? This is not that kind of place. They’re not gonna be bleeping out “f*%& you” every second of a song and the girls/guys are not gonna be showing an image that contrasts with the society’s idealism of wholesomeness. There may be some diversions of that image, here or there, but we all know what happens when it goes too far: MOGEF shuts it down and the netizens make it their moral and societal duty to put the person back in line. Aegyo and hip-hop can work. It just has to be done correctly. SNSD’s attempt to merge them didn’t work, but that’s because they were out of their comfort zone and the concept of the song was all over the place anyway. 

      I’m not overlooking the fact that Kpop concepts can be racially insensitive, but I don’t think incorporating hip-hop into Kpop with aegyo is messy cultural appropriation. Hip-hop culture is present all over the world, from the clothes, to the attitude, to the language, etc. People love it and combine it with what they know. I’m Black and I don’t have a problem with that. If others do, then they’re entitled to feel that way, but I understand cultural appropriation very well because I’m living in a country that is not my own. People adapt to culture, incorporate it, and assimilate into it. It’s the global way of the world. It can be offensive, but most of the times, in my opinion, it’s just completely over-analyzed.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003805670577 Mellie Dee

        I can understand what you’re saying but I think I’m gonna just have to disagree with the aegyo and the cultural appropriation. I agree that Hip-Hop culture has found itself in multiple places all over the world but is taken on and understood by different people in different ways. Palestinian Rap artists, for example. I acknowledge that mainstream American Rap also needs to be discussed but people are already having those discussions within other social (or music) communities. That’s why I was only concentrating on the Korean aegyo aspect of the article. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/dim.tso Dim Tso

    Terrible article. “Cultural appropriation”?

    The author sounds like a butthurt fanboy of the “hip-hop” genre raging about it coz some kpop groups decide to adopt its….”dress code”?

    According to you Mr author, hip-hop should be performed only by the black population of this planet, who refuse to wear pink, and specifically by artists who aren’t mainstream? 

    People should stop categorizing music and appearances like that. If I wanna play a guitar solo by wearing a bandana, buggy pants, a sideways hat and a huge golden chain hanging around my neck, I should be able to do so and nobody should care about it. 

  • CJux

    Oh Seoulbeats, you and your cultural appropriation bitching again. Will there be an article every time a popular K-pop group has the nerve to use hip-hop-inspired concepts in their comebacks?

    The stereotypical hip-hop trademarks are so widespread that it became just another fashion trend. Like in the 70’s when the punk movement started for political reasons; nowadays a bunch of Asian girls wearing a Misfits jackets with crazy hairdos is just another form of fashion statement, with no political inclination. Then again, I guess descents of the Mohawk tribe can bitch about the misusage of the word Mohawk in hairstyles…

    Oh well, until someone invents a form of copyrighting one’s culture, this “cultural appropriation” thing will continue to be part of changing civilizations, pop culture and globalization. It has been like this ever since the Romans appropriated Greek’s culture. Or since the first two tribes walking on Earth clashed with each other. If you ask me, I personally think the most creative case of cultural appropriation is Christianity with its massive borrowing of Jewish, Ancient Egypt and Northern European Pagan culture. I love Christmas. Its origins are as chopped and messy as “I Got A Boy”.

    • Miyuki

      I didn’t even have to read the whole paragraph before liking this. You got me at the first sentence XD

  • Mandi Findlay

    I think what the author is trying to say is if a group is going to do a hip hop concept then stick to it rather than incorporating things like aegyo and still calling it hip hop. 

    With the clothes thing however, it isn’t much of a problem, but stop trying to make a genre of music something it’s not. The author is basically saying that hip hop was made to come across a specific way with beats and rhythms and most of the time, lyrics that separates the genre from the rest. Fans are trying to make I Got A Boy and F(x) songs as hip hop products when in fact when you compare it, has very little aspects of it. So entertainment companies shouldn’t say that such and such song is going to be this kind of track when they try to f**k it up with things like aegyo with kind of ruins the credibility of the genre of music

  • haiitsvi

    I’m going to have to agree with a lot of the commentors on this one. And two words: Nicki Minaj

    She is black, not Korean, but you could say she uses an “aegyo” cutesy hip hop style. Her fans are called Barbie Dolls for crying out loud! And if you are going to criticize Kpop for including elements hip hop, which you seem to imply belongs to African Americans then you should also criticize Nicki Minaj for referencing and using Asian culture in many of her songs. Your Love and Check It Out come to mind the most for me.

    I’m no expert, but hip hop is not what it used to be. I recently read an article about how the 2000s in music was all about blending and blurring the line between hip hop and pop. If this is happening in America, it’s probably happening in Korea since, it could be argued that Kpop does its best to emulate American pop with their own Korean spin on it. Look at artists like Kanye and Jay Z.

    I’m all for social justice and all, but I think somethings don’t need to be taken so seriously. So what if Caucasians or Asians start borrowing fashion from African Americans? Does that mean that African Americans aren’t allowed to wear… cowboy hats and tuxedos? Racism and prejudice exists because we allow silly stuff like this to get to us. If everyone just went on peacefully with their lives without passing judgement because of what people wear or what kind of music they listen to, the world would be a little bit nicer.

    • shannie4888

      Good call on Nicki Minaj. She goes over into the pop territory all the time with her music. Sometimes she blends both genres and other times she just uses one of them. Either way, her version of hip-hop can be very aegyo induced. It’s less cute than the Korean version, but it does have the cuteness factor to it. She can still be gritty and be raw with her verses, so she can get away with it. It’s all about having balance. However, it’s similar enough to how Kpop artists mesh aegyo and hip-hop. 

      I don’t mean to completely reuse your comment, but as you stated there are substantial Asian elements in her music and her videos. The video for “Your love” had her falling in love with a samurai and she was a geisha/female warrior. Also, as you mentioned, she uses Asian characters in “Check it Out.” Another thing is the fact that she loves “Harajuku” fashion. This is the perfect example because the author pointed out the clothing in “I got a boy,” but some of Nicki’s fashion choices are heavily inspired by Harajuku fashion in Japan. She’s not trying to be Japanese. It’s cool and she likes it and she incorporates that into her image and her style.

      I think people always want to look at hip-hop as edgy music. It doesn’t have to be that way. It’s evolved way beyond its early origins of Queens when rappers were talking about social injustice, poverty, etc. People just need to accept that. Music is not static; it changes with the times and experimentation is what keeps it moving forward.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=567772000 Alexis Reed

      i dont think using nicki minaj is a good example at all. she is the definition of a sell out. before she got signed (and you can check her old stuff), she was a legit straight from new york rapper. she didn’t try to dress like barbie; she dressed like an original hip hop artist. now that she’s mainstream, JUST like the author of this article said, she’s now an image that is easier to look at (from a wide audience’s view) as a girly girl rather than a hardcore woman rapper. her raps also aren’t about the same things anymore. i know that rap is completely different than what it used to be, but kpop is pop culture that is almost completely appropriated from american pop culture. im not saying that it’s necessarily a bad thing, but a lot of the points that the author makes are true and indeed unnerving (such as big bang and the whole performance looking like bloodz). it’s not that people aren’t “allowed” to wear certain things, but appropriating native american culture in t-ara’s “yayaya” or other things like that are just not okay, and you have to understand that. nothing happened to cowboys as a people, so wearing a cowboy hat holds little meaning. certain dress have importance in certain cultures and that can’t be ignored or belittled. koreans do have their own spin on pop, which is what i enjoy so much about kpop, but it is completely borrowed from american pop.

      • haiitsvi

        First off, let me just put out there that I didn’t say anything about T-ara and their Native American portrayals. But for the record, I believe what T-ara did was wrong, because it is taking part of a sacred aspect of the Native American culture. There are all kinds of ritual and religious things behind their traditional clothing.

        On the other hand, wearing hip-hop/urban style clothing, has little to do with anything religious or sacred. I don’t think it’s really offending or belittling. And it’s not as if hip-hop artists “invented” the individual pieces of clothing. It’s just the collective style that is distinctive.

        And I really don’t care if Nicki Minaj is a sellout. It’s their personal choice what kind of music they want to create, and if they believe that popularity and fame over sending a specific message is more important, so be it. I’m just saying it’s a trend to incorporate aspects of other genres and cultures in entertainment.

        But if all you people are going to be so black and white about it: I’m American. I bet a few of you on here are as well. Let’s all stop listening to Kpop and Jpop, watching Kdramas and Animes, using Korean phrases in English conversation, trying to emulate our precious oppas and unnies, and doing anything that isn’t completely part of our own culture because once upon a time, America tried to be the world police, which basically meant they thought they had the power to rule over every country in the world and was an imperialist. Yeah, we put Japanese Americans into “concentration camps” during World War II. Oh no we can’t appropriate cultures that we tried to dominate because it’s wrongggg.

        Ok, no one hate me for saying that. I’m just trying to make a point. If no one ever borrowed something from another culture, the world would be a pretty boring place. Let’s not get butt-hurt about it.

        (P.S. If you properly capitalized words, I might be able to take you more seriously.)

  • Ditu3ka

    I don´t really get it. I´m not a fan of GG and their new song or te most of 2NE1´s concepts because it just seems forced and I-am-a-tough-girl wannabe but this analysis goes little bit overboard. It is true that hip-hop culture has a significant fashion but that fashion also originated somewhere. What I mean is, it isn´t exclusive or anything. Bandana is just a triangular piece of cloth and as that it has been used for centuries in many cultures. It´s different when it comes to symbols. I know sometimes even a piece of clothing becomes a symbol (like a blue bandana used by the Crips) but clothes and fashion is just clothes and fashion. You can either rock it or you simply cannot.
    Anyway, just because someone wears beanies, big shiny accessories and sideway caps and “talks really fast at some point during a song” I don´t take it as hip-hop. Seriously, who does? It´s a completely different music gender.

    • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

      homg hip hop bandanas are appropriating farmer and rancher culture this is an insult

      • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

        LMFAO.. XD
        Don’t forget Harley bikers.

        • David McCready

          My dad got so pissed one day regarding this exact topic.  He’s never a racist person but he really started get into someone talking about the black culture of the bandana and he got all factoids on the guy.  It was good times.

      • Ditu3ka

        I am sorry if I offended you, that wasn´t my intention, I don´t know how hip-hop bandanas differ from any other bandanas but for example in my culture a triangular piece of cloth is used by outside working women since late 18th century and later became a symbol of their position in social hierarchy. Some of them tied the corners under their chin but originally it is tied exactly like bandana. My Jewish friends from Israel wear small triangular scarves tied the same ways so they cover their hair and my former Muslim classmates (girls) wore a bigger one tied the same way for PE class and they all reffered to it as bandana and they for sure had nothing to do with hip-hop.

  • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

    A cautionary tale: when idols do hip hop without any hip hop culture

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1ZEK7tgQOA

    Just try to find some hip hop appropriation in there other than the music. Go on. I dare you. 
    Man, isn’t the lack of hip hop culture appropriation in these awesome or what.

    And you know what’s even better than that? METAL APPROPRIATION BY LOLIS. BabyMetal 4ever m/  

    Babymetal are so awesome they can get away with appropriating hip hop culture, too:  http://youtu.be/qVdBBOpSoN4?t=1m27s
    Microphone Jake. m/

    • David McCready

      Yay babymetal <3

  • my self

    This article is getting a lot of flack but I do understand what the author is talking about. This is about questioning the authenticity of using hip hop in K-pop verse that particular group or artist actually being influence by the genre. But it is wise to say that in any form of mainstream pop music, the authenticity of a group or artist is almost as fakes as their porcelain white smiles. Its quite clear that hip hop imagery is used as a commodity in K-pop. The additive mixture of aegyo is to insure to fans that despite the foreign influence of hip hop this is still K-pop.

    Hip hop itself for the past two decades has vastly change even in America. What hip hop was back in 1976 through 1994 has change into something that can be more multifaceted now. Hip hop is no longer about oppression but the need to spend despite a recession. This genre has become a superficial cesspool of materialistic bravado and sex. The current state of American hip hop is to sell not to inform, empower or educate.

    But the same can be said about the current position of hip hop, or any foreign music concept in K-pop, is to sell not promote authenticity. I felt the same way when I saw 2ne1 promotions for their IATB comebacks. The whole punk rock attire disgust me and Blackjacks ate it up like fat hungry pigs at a trough. I have friends who dress just like that but were hardcore punk rockers. They wear their bands T-shirts and dress that way to express their disposition in society’s norms. This wasn’t a fashion statement but more of a social statement of absolute independence. Even 2ne1 sporting the Misfits’ Crimson Ghost logo really bother me. Every rock,metal and punk head knows if you wear a particular band T-shirt that means you are a fan.

    I know this sounds so pretentious but to rock, metal and punk fans wearing your band T-shirt is a statement of who you support. Both on a musical and social level sense musicians of those genres are far more open and abstract. I didn’t believe in anything 2ne1 was promoting during that comeback. I knew they were just using the punk rock concept to help broadcast themselves as tough bad girls. Even Japan with visual Kei wouldn’t buy into 2ne1’s desperate punk rock look. I don’t blame them, it is so insulting and insensitive to dress a certain way and not have any influence of that music genre present in your music or a poor presentation.

    But if there is one thing I know about K-pop bands, their image change like the seasons. I can’t be angry at 2ne1 for promoting a punk rock concept because by the time “I Love You” promos started they change their image concept again. I know how fans can feel its asinine to see these K-pop groups dress and promote an image so superfically without a conscious thought of rationale. But this is K-pop, you can’t take it to seriously and you can’t judge them so harshly. If people get in Korean music culture they need to understand K-pop is one aspect. It is one particular form of music that exist. There are authentic hip hop rappers and groups who rightful represent the genre on a more complex level. Just like I know there are Korean punk and metal bands that exist. K-pop to me is just saturated pop absorbing and redistributing different music trends, its not its own entity. Either way you slice it K-pop is meant to sell before anything else.

    As far as African-American music influence it extends way beyond hip hop. Rock, heavy metal, punk are influence by the blues which is a genre created by African-Americans. Also for dance music is derived  from disco, house, electronic,doo-wop, and jazz that is African influence. Other genres like gospel, soul and r&b are other African-American genres. But genres like reggae,salsa, and zumba is of African origins. So hip hop collectively is one of the many forms of African to African-American influences that is universal used all over the music world. Just to be poltical correct pop music, a good 60-70% is influence by some form of African music. Hip hop is just the tip of the ice berg of African influence in popular music culture. But a controversial and a misunderstood one next to heavy metal and punk. That can not be superficial sum up with a certain fashion look.

    That is what I am getting for the article, some can say I am completely off topic.

  • ShineeWorld52911

    Ya know this wouldn’t even be argument if SM just stuck with ‘The Boys’ concept because this is ridiculous! I get the sense that SM knew that a drastic, shocking and let’s not forget completely uncomfortable image/concept change would just bring more attention to these girls. But what they probably didn’t think it would be bad attention, from an international perspective cause I don’t think ahjussis and fanboys in Korea are complaining about it. But I’m sorry, I gotta agree with the people shitting on your article right now bro, in terms of just using the hip hop concept. It’s strictly a visual aspect that shouldn’t be taken seriously. Especially when SNSD is doing it. I mean come on, it’s really not worth going in a whole spiel about because its not that serious and it damn sure isn’t gonna last, since SM is so bipolar with concepts for each comeback. It’s just nice to look at and you get a chuckle out of it as well.

  • Black_Plague

    Wow, this is getting pretty hectic. 

    Though honestly, aegyo hip-hop is a poor joke, considering the vast majority of idol ‘rappers’ can’t rap for shit to even save their own lives and they certainly won’t be able to take rapping as a solo career in the long run. Hell, there’s a reason why a lot of Koreans in the younger age bracket consider idol ‘rappers’ as more akin to wannabes or fakes. 

    Off-topic here – for SNSD’s next future comeback, what would it be like if SM hired Hans Zimmer? :)  

    • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

      Hans Zimmer is so 30 years ago..

      • Black_Plague

        I’ll still prefer him over whatever shit that SM-hired producers are making in recent times.

        • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

          Tastes differ.. Western music critics been giving IGAB high praises.. LA Times, MTV, Billboard, Popdust, and many more media outlets have been giving the song and video glowing reviews. Even going far as to say that it’s the most exciting and progressive pop music in any language. They even compared the song to Queen’s classic ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’. Few critics already crowned it the pop song of 2013.

          • NinjasRpplToo

            …..uuhhh They are raving over their outfits and I don’t mean to be rude, but your comment is just sooo wrong on so many levels. 

          • Black_Plague

            That’s funny. 

            http://seoulbeats.com/2013/01/the-old-girls-generation-and-the-next/#disqus_thread

            I suggest you read CJux’s comment in response to the fake Dana then. MTV isn’t even worth counting because it’s reviewed by MTV STYLE and the LA Times are about as accurate as a shotgun trying to hit a target 500 meters away when it comes down to K-pop. 

            Popdust, Billboard and MuuMuse? Written by SONES. 

  • KrisMyStar

    I feel kind of sorry for seoulbeats sometimes…the entire staff is labeled delusional or hypocritical whenever one of their analysis articles go wrong.

    • Thomas Siu

      Seriously, I feel like everyone forgets that this is an editorial site! People are not stating facts and they’re not reporting on news. I do wish people would be a bit more sensitive when writing comments – people are so eager to prove their opinion right on the internet that it comes off aggressive and rude. This site is great because I see a fair variety of viewpoints. I don’t come here for “unbiased information” (which is of itself an almost pointless endeavor) – I come here to consider opinions and see where other people stand. 

  • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

    It’s a part of korean culture accept it for what it is

    • Ava Amor

       That’s the problem, its actually NOT a part of Korean culture. That’s what the author is saying.

  • http://twitter.com/DeniseHuxxtable AYO GG

    Not surprised that the point of this article is going over people’s heads. It’s the truth. It’s actually why I can’t get into most of the idol groups that appropriate hip-hop/street culture. It comes off as so fake and corny to me.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/QWY3XABRR65SGRNPDABSYRUG3Q Jon

    “The music and the artistry of hip hop is fair game, but the aesthetics which particularly belong to African-American culture aren’t meant to be freely transmitted to other cultures, especially to one which doesn’t share a similar history of oppression! In order to rock a cap with a do-rag or display a tattoo located under one’s eye, artists must understand the origins and cultural significance behind such a fashion statement and present these elements carefully and appropriately in their work.”
    Wow, Seoulbeats, I love you guys, but you really seem to have missed the mark on this one. Especially here. This just comes across as snooty and even racist. People have to go through what others went through to emulate anything they do?? They can’t enjoy hip-hop to the fullest because they don’t share the same history? This just seems uncalled for.

    A do-rag is a piece of cloth. It’s just a fashion statement at this point. Saying they’re not in the right to wear it as such is like saying girls can’t reveal their ankles unless they show how oppressed and modest women were decades ago. We respect it, sure, but it’s not something we need to discuss at every moment. 

    I don’t know, this article just seems hyper-critical, which you have the right to be, of course. But I think it could have been done more tactfully.

    • haiitsvi

      Completely agree with you, Jon. It’s the fact that we stratify certain aspects of pop culture to a specific group of people and their historical oppression that racism still exists. It is only when we as a culture of people realize that we can freely share aspects of our culture without people bashing it or regarding it as offensive that we can become closer as human beings.

      It’s kind of like the Black Power movement of the 1970s when some African Americans wanted to separate from American society completely, rather than obtaining equal rights and privileges. They wanted to create a distinct culture and community for their own race, but it ended up that they believed they were superior than those African Americans that chose the other route and wanted to integrate into society. This view of culture is not very conducive of viewing other people without bias and prejudice.

  • harrypotterng1995

    Lolz 在鸡蛋里挑骨头

  • harrypotterng1995

    Lolz 在鸡蛋里挑骨头

  • harrypotterng1995

    Lolz 在鸡蛋里挑骨头

  • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

    So this article is basically saying that Gwen Stefani can hijack Harajuku style and RZA can copy the Chinese but Asians can’t dress in a hip hop style because its an insult to the real gangstas? O_o
    GTFO of here with that BS logic.. The writer is so full of himself..

  • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

    So this article is basically saying that Gwen Stefani can hijack Harajuku style and RZA can copy the Chinese but Asians can’t dress in a hip hop style because its an insult to the real gangstas? O_o
    GTFO of here with that BS logic.. The writer is so full of himself..

  • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

    So this article is basically saying that Gwen Stefani can hijack Harajuku style and RZA can copy the Chinese but Asians can’t dress in a hip hop style because its an insult to the real gangstas? O_o
    GTFO of here with that BS logic.. The writer is so full of himself..

  • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

    So this article is basically saying that Gwen Stefani can hijack Harajuku style and RZA can copy the Chinese but Asians can’t dress in a hip hop style because its an insult to the real gangstas? O_o
    GTFO of here with that BS logic.. The writer is so full of himself..

  • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

    So this article is basically saying that Gwen Stefani can hijack Harajuku style and RZA can copy the Chinese but Asians can’t dress in a hip hop style because its an insult to the real gangstas? O_o
    GTFO of here with that BS logic.. The writer is so full of himself..

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1042394200 Nga Ngắc Ngoải

       The author never says that, and Gwen Stefanie gets a lot of flack for appropriating Japanese culture.

    • http://twitter.com/DeniseHuxxtable AYO GG

      That’s not what the author is saying and the only BS logic here is yours…..

    • SacreCoeur

      No Doubt recently had to pull a music video because they used American Native Indian dress in several scenes, and Gwen Stefani got a lot of negative press behind the 4 Asian girls she always had with her. I don’t think many artists get a free ride when it comes to insensitivity. 

    • CrossGenelover

      No, the article is saying that before you appropriate ANY cultural aspect, LEARN about the cultural background(history) and the people behind it. And this isn’t about Gwen Stefani, it’s about Hip-Hop. And no one who could see the problem with her concept liked it and they let her know they didn’t. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1042394200 Nga Ngắc Ngoải

    Their concept is ridiculous

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

    I find the comments on this article to be rather disappointing. Bashing and belittling the author is not the right way to get your point across. Anyways I don’t think the author is implying that only black people can do hiphop. 

    I think this article explains it well although telling by the comments section most of you will probably ignore it, because you’ve made no attempts in trying to understand this article from seoulbeats but here it is, this article sums it up better than me- 

    “There’s nothing inherently wrong with being a Korean rapper. Rap is a vocal style. Although it too has deep roots in the Black community, I don’t find the actual style itself one that exclusively belongs to Blacks. It’s only when artists appropriate the fashion, demeanor, speech, ect that the entire concept become problematic. K-pop artists do not have the same social, economic, or political experiences Black Americans do, so it seems ingenuine for them to rap about subject matter and dawn a persona specific to the experiences of others. Each Korean rapper has his/her own unique personal and Korean related experience to use as fodder for their music. Why not use the fashion prevalent in your own culture, or reference the experiences unique to your situation? Why not create a strong, Korean voice instead of one that imitates Black American hip-hop? Certainly, there are artists that are currently doing this in mainstream Korean popular music.”Musicians like Might Mouth and Psy both deliver rap vocals in a distinct and unique manner, creating live performances specific to their personalities and reflective of their own experiences. It may not be “gangster” American rap, but I think it’s wrong for us to expect Korean rap to look like American rap.”

    Source- http://www.roomybaaakroomy.blogspot.com/

    • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

      But why is hip hop special? I don’t see offense being taken over other genres, fashions and styles that pop music steals, and as Ditu3ka pointed out below, even the fashions supposedly belonging to hip hop culture came from somewhere else. 

      Why not create a strong, Korean voice instead of one that imitates Black American hip-hop?

      To demand this is to not understand / disrespect Asian aesthetics, which applauds the ability of someone to not express one’s own individuality, but the ability to take on desirable traits as set down by society as act them out as if they were their own nature. Appropriation in this manner is then a form of praise and support of the original, but also a sign of the individual’s prowess. 

      You can criticize them on the quality of execution, (a bad one of which can be disrespectful) but to criticize the overall system of concept-based transformation because it operates off of imitation that riles up your sense of entitlement is ignoring the other side and risks cultural elitism. 

    • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

      But why is hip hop special? I don’t see offense being taken over other genres, fashions and styles that pop music steals, and as Ditu3ka pointed out below, even the fashions supposedly belonging to hip hop culture came from somewhere else. 

      Why not create a strong, Korean voice instead of one that imitates Black American hip-hop?

      To demand this is to not understand / disrespect Asian aesthetics, which applauds the ability of someone to not express one’s own individuality, but the ability to take on desirable traits as set down by society as act them out as if they were their own nature. Appropriation in this manner is then a form of praise and support of the original, but also a sign of the individual’s prowess. 

      You can criticize them on the quality of execution, (a bad one of which can be disrespectful) but to criticize the overall system of concept-based transformation because it operates off of imitation that riles up your sense of entitlement is ignoring the other side and risks cultural elitism. 

      • SacreCoeur

        Hip hop isn’t special.  It’s the topic of the article.  The same arguments have been made when rockers have incorporated hip hop into their music. 

        I believe the critism in this article is the execution.  The author’s critique seems to be that the use of hip hop is incongruent with the overall message of this kind of k-pop (which to be honest, I’m not familiar with). 

        As a black woman who grew up with hip hop, I see these groups and think they look silly.  But I’m not Korean and in Korea they are a big hit, so party on. 

        • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

          My own perception of the article, which seems to be what others are getting out of it as well, is that the author oversteps merely criticizing the execution, (“I see these groups and think they look silly.”) which is okay, and goes on to act as if certain elements are inherently incompatible with hip hop as a genre overall,(looking silly attempting hip-pop =/= homg this is offensive and disrespectful to hip hop) which is preposterous. The aegyo paragraph in particular does this, which is why I targetted that in my first comment on the article. That kind of patronising overgeneralising tone kind of carried over to the cultural appropriation part of the article and obscured the valid points in that section. 

          The lack of acknowledging the other genres liberally appropriated by pop makes the argument incongruous because it comes off like “if it’s okay with x genre, why isn’t it okay with y genre?” That’s why I ask why hip hop is special, because those other genres can serve as a counterexample. 

          And there is no overall message to this kind of Kpop. It’s pop music. Neither of the usual flavors of pop music, “Love is great! :D” and “Love sucks! :(“, are incongruent with hip hop. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

        How does it rile up my sense of entitlement when I don’t find it wrong to be a rapper of another race or culture background? So do you think that imitation is highest form flattery? And if so why do things such as black face happen?

        Referring to this statement-“Why not create a strong, Korean voice instead of one that imitates Black American hip-hop?”

         Korean rap artist (not idols) have already done this. They praise and support as you put it, and look up to some American rappers, but the things they write about, and even their style of rapping is most specifically their own. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Korean rap performance and thought they were imitating American hiphop. But if I am running the risk of sounding like a cultural elitism then I will reflect on that. Can I ask how though? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just generally curious in what you have to say since I kinda understand where you are coming from.

        • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

          I want to thank you for this response. I had to really think hard about my own beliefs and check that I wasn’t being backdoor racist. That’s why it took so long to respond. XD

          How does it rile up my sense of entitlement when I don’t find it wrong to be a rapper of another race or culture background?
          It’s not the sense of entitlement to be a certain race, it’s the sense of entitlement pertaining to hip hop culture and authenticity. As I said before, “Instead of reading a book on hip hop history, I’d rather read a book on racial relations history, of which then hip hop history may play a part as one avenue of expression.”

          So do you think that imitation is highest form flattery? And if so why do things such as black face happen?
          I don’t always think that. But a large part of Asian aesthetic is to take something you love and improve on it, which has been seen in the way Asian companies have come to dominate the technology sector: not through surface ground-breaking innovations like Apple does, but by taking existing mechanisms and innovating ways to optimise them. (And in Asian art also: it’s not about coming up with new ways to express your intent, it’s about how creatively you use existing symbolism to express it, combined with how pristine the execution is) In the case of Kpop, they’ve tried to optimize the process of producing an artist that can rake in the cash. And if factory-produced is the way to go, why not do the same with the hottest trend in music, hip hop? They do it not out of a lack of love for the genre, but because they believe this is a way to produce the perfect hip hop song. 
          And that may be a gross misunderstanding of the genre on their part, which should be brought up to them. But that doesn’t mean that the entire optimization aesthetic should be deemed offensive for it, because that’s also condemning an entrenched part of Asian culture. 

          In that sense, blackface for the purposes of comedy (making fun of being black) should be condemned as offensive. Blackface done lovingly as a tribute, such as Fred Astaire’s blackface in Bojangles of Harlem, may still be offensive, but the intent behind it should not painted with the same “racist bigots!” brush, and actions taken to confront it without the same offended aggression, which only incites defensive reactions, as all of these comments have shown, including my own.
          And the merits it does have shouldn’t be ignored simply because of the problematic elements of it. For example, Michael Jackson used this very blackface Astaire performance as inspiration for his Smooth Criminal entrance during the HIStory world tour.

          Korean rap artist (not idols) have already done this. They praise and support as you put it, and look up to some American rappers, but the things they write about, and even their style of rapping is most specifically their own. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Korean rap performance and thought they were imitating American hiphop. But if I am running the risk of sounding like a cultural elitism then I will reflect on that. Can I ask how though? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just generally curious in what you have to say since I kinda understand where you are coming from.
          Sorry, this was bad wording on my part. The “you” and “your” when I said “You can criticize them on the quality of execution, (a bad one of which can be disrespectful) but to criticize the overall system of concept-based transformation because it operates off of imitation that riles up your sense of entitlement is ignoring the other side and risks cultural elitism.” wasn’t referring to JasmineA “you.” It was a general “you all,” more directed at the original article. And as I said above, part of the Asian aesthetic is that finding their own voice isn’t necessarily the goal, but indeed to transform into the image that they want to portray. That approach by itself isn’t bad, even if many of Kpop’s attempts to do so with hip hop culture are shallow and problematic. 

          But the article’s tone, especially with regards to how irreconcilable aegyo supposedly is with hip hop, 1) loses sight of its original appropriation argument, as adding aegyo to the appropriated clothing can be an avenue to divorcing the fashions from their original associations, thus aegyo-fied hip hop attire is no longer fully appropriating a perception of black culture, 2) denies an avenue for Korean hip hop and rap to create their own voice, in the form of aegyo-fied music, and 3) belittles the Asian optimisation aesthetic, by placing so much weight on an authenticity aesthetic that Asian culture has no obligation to follow. (and assumes that aegyo inherently cannot be authentic)

        • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

          I want to thank you for this response. I had to really think hard about my own beliefs and check that I wasn’t being backdoor racist. That’s why it took so long to respond. XD

          How does it rile up my sense of entitlement when I don’t find it wrong to be a rapper of another race or culture background?
          It’s not the sense of entitlement to be a certain race, it’s the sense of entitlement pertaining to hip hop culture and authenticity. As I said before, “Instead of reading a book on hip hop history, I’d rather read a book on racial relations history, of which then hip hop history may play a part as one avenue of expression.”

          So do you think that imitation is highest form flattery? And if so why do things such as black face happen?
          I don’t always think that. But a large part of Asian aesthetic is to take something you love and improve on it, which has been seen in the way Asian companies have come to dominate the technology sector: not through surface ground-breaking innovations like Apple does, but by taking existing mechanisms and innovating ways to optimise them. (And in Asian art also: it’s not about coming up with new ways to express your intent, it’s about how creatively you use existing symbolism to express it, combined with how pristine the execution is) In the case of Kpop, they’ve tried to optimize the process of producing an artist that can rake in the cash. And if factory-produced is the way to go, why not do the same with the hottest trend in music, hip hop? They do it not out of a lack of love for the genre, but because they believe this is a way to produce the perfect hip hop song. 
          And that may be a gross misunderstanding of the genre on their part, which should be brought up to them. But that doesn’t mean that the entire optimization aesthetic should be deemed offensive for it, because that’s also condemning an entrenched part of Asian culture. 

          In that sense, blackface for the purposes of comedy (making fun of being black) should be condemned as offensive. Blackface done lovingly as a tribute, such as Fred Astaire’s blackface in Bojangles of Harlem, may still be offensive, but the intent behind it should not painted with the same “racist bigots!” brush, and actions taken to confront it without the same offended aggression, which only incites defensive reactions, as all of these comments have shown, including my own.
          And the merits it does have shouldn’t be ignored simply because of the problematic elements of it. For example, Michael Jackson used this very blackface Astaire performance as inspiration for his Smooth Criminal entrance during the HIStory world tour.

          Korean rap artist (not idols) have already done this. They praise and support as you put it, and look up to some American rappers, but the things they write about, and even their style of rapping is most specifically their own. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Korean rap performance and thought they were imitating American hiphop. But if I am running the risk of sounding like a cultural elitism then I will reflect on that. Can I ask how though? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just generally curious in what you have to say since I kinda understand where you are coming from.
          Sorry, this was bad wording on my part. The “you” and “your” when I said “You can criticize them on the quality of execution, (a bad one of which can be disrespectful) but to criticize the overall system of concept-based transformation because it operates off of imitation that riles up your sense of entitlement is ignoring the other side and risks cultural elitism.” wasn’t referring to JasmineA “you.” It was a general “you all,” more directed at the original article. And as I said above, part of the Asian aesthetic is that finding their own voice isn’t necessarily the goal, but indeed to transform into the image that they want to portray. That approach by itself isn’t bad, even if many of Kpop’s attempts to do so with hip hop culture are shallow and problematic. 

          But the article’s tone, especially with regards to how irreconcilable aegyo supposedly is with hip hop, 1) loses sight of its original appropriation argument, as adding aegyo to the appropriated clothing can be an avenue to divorcing the fashions from their original associations, thus aegyo-fied hip hop attire is no longer fully appropriating a perception of black culture, 2) denies an avenue for Korean hip hop and rap to create their own voice, in the form of aegyo-fied music, and 3) belittles the Asian optimisation aesthetic, by placing so much weight on an authenticity aesthetic that Asian culture has no obligation to follow. (and assumes that aegyo inherently cannot be authentic)

        • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

          I want to thank you for this response. I had to really think hard about my own beliefs and check that I wasn’t being backdoor racist. That’s why it took so long to respond. XD

          How does it rile up my sense of entitlement when I don’t find it wrong to be a rapper of another race or culture background?
          It’s not the sense of entitlement to be a certain race, it’s the sense of entitlement pertaining to hip hop culture and authenticity. As I said before, “Instead of reading a book on hip hop history, I’d rather read a book on racial relations history, of which then hip hop history may play a part as one avenue of expression.”

          So do you think that imitation is highest form flattery? And if so why do things such as black face happen?
          I don’t always think that. But a large part of Asian aesthetic is to take something you love and improve on it, which has been seen in the way Asian companies have come to dominate the technology sector: not through surface ground-breaking innovations like Apple does, but by taking existing mechanisms and innovating ways to optimise them. (And in Asian art also: it’s not about coming up with new ways to express your intent, it’s about how creatively you use existing symbolism to express it, combined with how pristine the execution is) In the case of Kpop, they’ve tried to optimize the process of producing an artist that can rake in the cash. And if factory-produced is the way to go, why not do the same with the hottest trend in music, hip hop? They do it not out of a lack of love for the genre, but because they believe this is a way to produce the perfect hip hop song. 
          And that may be a gross misunderstanding of the genre on their part, which should be brought up to them. But that doesn’t mean that the entire optimization aesthetic should be deemed offensive for it, because that’s also condemning an entrenched part of Asian culture. 

          In that sense, blackface for the purposes of comedy (making fun of being black) should be condemned as offensive. Blackface done lovingly as a tribute, such as Fred Astaire’s blackface in Bojangles of Harlem, may still be offensive, but the intent behind it should not painted with the same “racist bigots!” brush, and actions taken to confront it without the same offended aggression, which only incites defensive reactions, as all of these comments have shown, including my own.
          And the merits it does have shouldn’t be ignored simply because of the problematic elements of it. For example, Michael Jackson used this very blackface Astaire performance as inspiration for his Smooth Criminal entrance during the HIStory world tour.

          Korean rap artist (not idols) have already done this. They praise and support as you put it, and look up to some American rappers, but the things they write about, and even their style of rapping is most specifically their own. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Korean rap performance and thought they were imitating American hiphop. But if I am running the risk of sounding like a cultural elitism then I will reflect on that. Can I ask how though? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just generally curious in what you have to say since I kinda understand where you are coming from.
          Sorry, this was bad wording on my part. The “you” and “your” when I said “You can criticize them on the quality of execution, (a bad one of which can be disrespectful) but to criticize the overall system of concept-based transformation because it operates off of imitation that riles up your sense of entitlement is ignoring the other side and risks cultural elitism.” wasn’t referring to JasmineA “you.” It was a general “you all,” more directed at the original article. And as I said above, part of the Asian aesthetic is that finding their own voice isn’t necessarily the goal, but indeed to transform into the image that they want to portray. That approach by itself isn’t bad, even if many of Kpop’s attempts to do so with hip hop culture are shallow and problematic. 

          But the article’s tone, especially with regards to how irreconcilable aegyo supposedly is with hip hop, 1) loses sight of its original appropriation argument, as adding aegyo to the appropriated clothing can be an avenue to divorcing the fashions from their original associations, thus aegyo-fied hip hop attire is no longer fully appropriating a perception of black culture, 2) denies an avenue for Korean hip hop and rap to create their own voice, in the form of aegyo-fied music, and 3) belittles the Asian optimisation aesthetic, by placing so much weight on an authenticity aesthetic that Asian culture has no obligation to follow. (and assumes that aegyo inherently cannot be authentic)

        • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

          I want to thank you for this response. I had to really think hard about my own beliefs and check that I wasn’t being backdoor racist. That’s why it took so long to respond. XD

          How does it rile up my sense of entitlement when I don’t find it wrong to be a rapper of another race or culture background?
          It’s not the sense of entitlement to be a certain race, it’s the sense of entitlement pertaining to hip hop culture and authenticity. As I said before, “Instead of reading a book on hip hop history, I’d rather read a book on racial relations history, of which then hip hop history may play a part as one avenue of expression.”

          So do you think that imitation is highest form flattery? And if so why do things such as black face happen?
          I don’t always think that. But a large part of Asian aesthetic is to take something you love and improve on it, which has been seen in the way Asian companies have come to dominate the technology sector: not through surface ground-breaking innovations like Apple does, but by taking existing mechanisms and innovating ways to optimise them. (And in Asian art also: it’s not about coming up with new ways to express your intent, it’s about how creatively you use existing symbolism to express it, combined with how pristine the execution is) In the case of Kpop, they’ve tried to optimize the process of producing an artist that can rake in the cash. And if factory-produced is the way to go, why not do the same with the hottest trend in music, hip hop? They do it not out of a lack of love for the genre, but because they believe this is a way to produce the perfect hip hop song. 
          And that may be a gross misunderstanding of the genre on their part, which should be brought up to them. But that doesn’t mean that the entire optimization aesthetic should be deemed offensive for it, because that’s also condemning an entrenched part of Asian culture. 

          In that sense, blackface for the purposes of comedy (making fun of being black) should be condemned as offensive. Blackface done lovingly as a tribute, such as Fred Astaire’s blackface in Bojangles of Harlem, may still be offensive, but the intent behind it should not painted with the same “racist bigots!” brush, and actions taken to confront it without the same offended aggression, which only incites defensive reactions, as all of these comments have shown, including my own.
          And the merits it does have shouldn’t be ignored simply because of the problematic elements of it. For example, Michael Jackson used this very blackface Astaire performance as inspiration for his Smooth Criminal entrance during the HIStory world tour.

          Korean rap artist (not idols) have already done this. They praise and support as you put it, and look up to some American rappers, but the things they write about, and even their style of rapping is most specifically their own. I don’t think I’ve ever watched a Korean rap performance and thought they were imitating American hiphop. But if I am running the risk of sounding like a cultural elitism then I will reflect on that. Can I ask how though? I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just generally curious in what you have to say since I kinda understand where you are coming from.
          Sorry, this was bad wording on my part. The “you” and “your” when I said “You can criticize them on the quality of execution, (a bad one of which can be disrespectful) but to criticize the overall system of concept-based transformation because it operates off of imitation that riles up your sense of entitlement is ignoring the other side and risks cultural elitism.” wasn’t referring to JasmineA “you.” It was a general “you all,” more directed at the original article. And as I said above, part of the Asian aesthetic is that finding their own voice isn’t necessarily the goal, but indeed to transform into the image that they want to portray. That approach by itself isn’t bad, even if many of Kpop’s attempts to do so with hip hop culture are shallow and problematic. 

          But the article’s tone, especially with regards to how irreconcilable aegyo supposedly is with hip hop, 1) loses sight of its original appropriation argument, as adding aegyo to the appropriated clothing can be an avenue to divorcing the fashions from their original associations, thus aegyo-fied hip hop attire is no longer fully appropriating a perception of black culture, 2) denies an avenue for Korean hip hop and rap to create their own voice, in the form of aegyo-fied music, and 3) belittles the Asian optimisation aesthetic, by placing so much weight on an authenticity aesthetic that Asian culture has no obligation to follow. (and assumes that aegyo inherently cannot be authentic)

      • saywat88

        Hip Hop is special because its seen as one of the last musical art forms that was created by African Americans that isn’t completly taken over by white people. I mean when most people think of rock and roll they don’t even assoicate with African Americans anymore. That’s why hip hop is special.

        • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

          Special because of exclusion? I don’t quite understand this. Yes, the Jews took over jazz and white people stole rock, but 1) as Norimix has pointed out multiple times in the comments it’s it wasn’t all detrimental, nor does it inherently negate the credibility of the genre, and 2) I feel like one of the reasons hip hop and R&B maintain a dominant African American presence today is because in an America less prejudiced than when jazz and rock were developed, African Americans don’t have to abandon the genres like they did with jazz and rock, and that the general public has supported them to be a majority of mainstream faces of the genre is proof of that. If the same amount of African Americans attempting to start a career in hip hop or rap attempted to start jazz or rock bands today, I’m sure they’d begin to diversify more again as well. Wynton Marsalis shows that cream will rise to the top. They don’t have to kick the other ethnicities or their influences out to make it special. 

          haiitsvi’s comment also applies here. That’s a forced and false kind of special. 

    • dustdevilliz

      Thanks for linking to the other blog post, which addressed the same topic, but made some different and more clear arguments.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

        No problem, I thought so too. Glad to help :)

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

        No problem, I thought so too. Glad to help :)

  • qritie

    lol this is what happens when pretentious college students take a beginners social justice class and then extrapolate wildly using basic terms they learned without any real understanding of social context or maturity of nuance. It’s ok, darling, you’re so smart with your big words that you have no idea how to use, rest assured. The wild reaching in this article as well as the smug pseudointelletual self-assurance of it is seoulbeats in a nutshell though so it fits in well with the rest of this site :) just as awful as allkpop but with 900% of the convintion that they’re somehow smarter and better. 

    • canistillhaveadream2

      “The smug pseudointellectual self-assurance.”

      This is your first comment here (at least, as the username, “qritie”), but you already so much impressed me with that mercilessly satiric comment. lol.

    • canistillhaveadream2

      “The smug pseudointellectual self-assurance.”

      This is your first comment here (at least, as the username, “qritie”), but you already so much impressed me with that mercilessly satiric comment. lol.

    • Grace Ecarg

       allkpop is a news site, seoulbeats is an editorial site
      how are they so similar?

  • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

    Before the legendary Stax blues artist Rufus Thomas passed away he gave his last interview with NPR where he was asked if he felt that the fellow Memphian Elvis Presley stole black music and he simply answered..

    ‘Well a lot of people said Elvis stole our music. Stole the black man’s music. The black man, white man, has got no music of their own. Music belongs to the universe’.. Wise words from a wise man right?

    I feel that it’s the same for fashion.. I mean if African/Americans feel so strongly that certain clothing should be only worn by legit ghetto hood rats then they should stop promoting Phat farm, Baby Phat, Sean John, Pelle Pelle in fashion magazines and stop selling the clothes in major department stores because Asians are somehow not swag enough to carryout gangster look.. I mean according to your logic they should only sell hiphop clothing to other black ppl right?

    It’s like some uppity Frenchman going up to Beyonce on the red carpet then telling her that her hand sewn French Haute Couture dress can only be worn by French Aristocrats..
    This article is so offensive in many ways..

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/CHJGULRD2WTYCEUSBIFM2ZL35Y Dawn

    There is also this thing about these songs being Korean, which is probably meant for Koreans. Why should the Hip-Hop of US be the international standard or what it should be? I think that after a music style is presented it belongs to nobody specifically and shouldn’t be restricted in that way. I seem to recall something along the line of having the freedom to express…

    • NinjasRpplToo

      Lets be real; the reason why most kpop idols are even trying to get into hip hop is to appeal to the international fans. It is no secret that kpop is trying to reach international success. If they are going to keep promoting overseas and they keep going on about this Hallyu wave then they need to think more internationally. I personally feel that trying to promote one’s culture to the rest of the world, but completely ignoring the rest is disrespectful. 

      • canistillhaveadream2

        Kpop idols are trying to get into hip hop because they want to appeal to the international fans? Lol. Could you even give me some proof on it because I totally cannot be sure whether or not it’s only your personal (delusional) assumption.

        Do you even know the real history of Korean pop? Like, Seo Taiji & Boys, Deux, or any other Kpop idols back in the early ’90s? Well, back then, there were not even these special terms like “Hallyu”, “Kpop”, etc., and nobody even dreamed of Koreans becoming international stars. No, never. I can totally assure you because I clearly remember the old days. (Yes, I’m Korean.) But their music sounded way more “hip hop-ish” than these new Kpop songs from the 21st century. Besides, compared to the old days, Korean pop music is now not that crazy about hip hop any more to be honest. The new Kpop is more about “electronic pop” if you haven’t noticed it yet. Even Lee Hyori’s music back in 2002 sounded more hip hop-ish. 

        One of the most hilarious things that I’ve noticed about international fans is that they do believe Kpop only cares about being international. Lol, no. Korean people and the domestic market are still the No. 1 target of the Korean music industry. Don’t be so deluded.

      • canistillhaveadream2

        Kpop idols are trying to get into hip hop because they want to appeal to the international fans? Lol. Could you even give me some proof on it because I totally cannot be sure whether or not it’s only your personal (delusional) assumption.

        Do you even know the real history of Korean pop? Like, Seo Taiji & Boys, Deux, or any other Kpop idols back in the early ’90s? Well, back then, there were not even these special terms like “Hallyu”, “Kpop”, etc., and nobody even dreamed of Koreans becoming international stars. No, never. I can totally assure you because I clearly remember the old days. (Yes, I’m Korean.) But their music sounded way more “hip hop-ish” than these new Kpop songs from the 21st century. Besides, compared to the old days, Korean pop music is now not that crazy about hip hop any more to be honest. The new Kpop is more about “electronic pop” if you haven’t noticed it yet. Even Lee Hyori’s music back in 2002 sounded more hip hop-ish. 

        One of the most hilarious things that I’ve noticed about international fans is that they do believe Kpop only cares about being international. Lol, no. Korean people and the domestic market are still the No. 1 target of the Korean music industry. Don’t be so deluded.

      • canistillhaveadream2

        Kpop idols are trying to get into hip hop because they want to appeal to the international fans? Lol. Could you even give me some proof on it because I totally cannot be sure whether or not it’s only your personal (delusional) assumption.

        Do you even know the real history of Korean pop? Like, Seo Taiji & Boys, Deux, or any other Kpop idols back in the early ’90s? Well, back then, there were not even these special terms like “Hallyu”, “Kpop”, etc., and nobody even dreamed of Koreans becoming international stars. No, never. I can totally assure you because I clearly remember the old days. (Yes, I’m Korean.) But their music sounded way more “hip hop-ish” than these new Kpop songs from the 21st century. Besides, compared to the old days, Korean pop music is now not that crazy about hip hop any more to be honest. The new Kpop is more about “electronic pop” if you haven’t noticed it yet. Even Lee Hyori’s music back in 2002 sounded more hip hop-ish. 

        One of the most hilarious things that I’ve noticed about international fans is that they do believe Kpop only cares about being international. Lol, no. Korean people and the domestic market are still the No. 1 target of the Korean music industry. Don’t be so deluded.

        • NinjasRpplToo

          No one is talking about Kpop from the 90’s (at least I’m not). I never said they only care about being international, but you cannot seriously sit there and say that they have no interest whatsoever. Are you kidding me? You need proof that kpop wants to go international? Like for real? I find this ridiculous. You want proof? Go google it. Don’t take my word for it. Even in America most mainstream hip hop sounds almost like pop, but that has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. I don’t intend for this reply to sound rude, but I have a hard time responding in any other kind of way when being referred to as a delusional fan who thinks a foreign music industry revolves around me. 

          • canistillhaveadream2

            “You need proof that kpop wants to go international?”

            Dude, never did I even say that, lol…

            I said I needed proof that they’re doing hip hop BECAUSE they want to go international. They might be doing hip hop-ish things to please Korean people, not the international audiences. Who knows? So yeah, I said I wanted proof on it.

            Don’t you speak English? Why misunderstanding? I don’t get it.

            EDIT: And I mentioned Kpop music in the early ’90s because I wanted to let you know that hip hip-ish elements in Kpop music has long been like a TRADITIONAL thing already since the old days. In other words, it’s never a result from a sudden popularity from the international audiences. Any other question?

          • NinjasRpplToo

            Why so rude? I don’t get it.

          • canistillhaveadream2

            I don’t think I’m being rude, but that’s okay. Whatever.

            But what about other things? Don’t you have other things with which you can refute my comments? No? Okay, then.

          • NinjasRpplToo

            You don’t think you are being rude? I guess It’s just me, but where I’m from it is not okay to just call someone delusional for having a difference of opinion, nor is it okay to say things like, “Don’t you speak English?”(when it’s obvious they do) When there is a misunderstanding. The only reason why I mentioned hip hop is because hip hop was mentioned. The main point of my comment was my personal opinion which  cannot be proven(obviously). If you’re so hung up on this hip hop thing go research it yourself. I don’t care enough to do it for myself let alone for you.

          • canistillhaveadream2

            1. “The main point of my comment was my personal opinion which  cannot be proven(obviously).”

            But you clearly said on your first comment, “Let’s be real”. So since when “being real” was expressing a “personal” opinion, huh? Please just don’t deny that you were so dead certain that they’re doing hip hop because they want to go international.

            2. I honestly don’t care whether or not you think I’m being rude. Think whatever you want.

          • NinjasRpplToo

            I’m not denying that  I am certain, but I’m also not denying that it’s just my opinion. It is possible for people to be certain about what they think. Whatever I seriously need to stop wasting my time which such disrespectful people. Thanks for such a pointless conversation.

          • canistillhaveadream2

            Dude, it has turned pointless only because you misunderstood my first comment.

  • http://twitter.com/JenLuvsJen Jen

    I agree, if you are going to do hip hop, do it the right way.  

    • RC_RC

      I agree, SNSD should have asked your permission before every release because you know what the right way is! You are the decider master Jen!

      • http://twitter.com/JenLuvsJen Jen

        bite me 

  • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

    Congratulations Mark.
    You now possess the proud achievement of having written the worst article on Seoulbeats. You alone could rise out above your peers and provide the perfect blend of smug pseudo-intellectual banter combined with overwrought social justice meandering, whilst getting a few shots in about aegyo, that most terrible feature of K-Pop which Seoulbeats never relents to tell us about how bad it exactly is.

    You did it Mark. You really did it.
    Primus inter pares.

    • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

      I don’t know.. Subi chick calling Tiffany and Jessica bimbos for their California accent stands out for me too.. XD

    • http://www.facebook.com/MaureeniePie Maureen Nguyen

      This.
      This article gave me cancer.

    • http://www.facebook.com/MaureeniePie Maureen Nguyen

      This.
      This article gave me cancer.

  • s4a

    :)) This article is amusing and, honestly, more problematic than anything being accused.

    Hip-hop is not some stagnant concept that you have pigeon-holed it into. It’s not just gritty, resistant, cultural armor. It’s not just about “fuck the world”. There is no such thing as “genuine” hip hop and hasn’t been for years. It’s a wide umbrella and varies by coast and by region. Please stop thinking that your interpretation of what “true” hip-hop “is” is the only one and anything slightly different doesn’t count. That’s elitist.

    Furthermore, hip-pop does exist and songs like IGAB definitely qualify under that banner.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U67SZ37IJIJVTT4Y5GYLDQ6DB4 Bailey

       Bless this comment.

  • Mint Berry

    Snoop Lion?  LMAO!

  • http://www.facebook.com/marshmellowbelly Christina Xu

    i found this hilarious, you put snsd’s IGAB under the hip hop genre?
    The music itself is nothing similar to hip hop, the only reason i see you’ve put it under there is:
    1) Their fashion and clothing are supposedly hip hop style
    2) The dance incorporates hip hop styles into it.
    But its still POP MUSIC. -_- PUH-LEASE
    Who cares? good music IS good music, whatever style it is.

  • Jazzy115

    You know whats funny, I bet the same people calling the article trash are the same people who bashed chad future for appropriating/misunderstanding part of kpop and aspects of korean culture because he wanted to be apart of kpop and dont see a problem with kpop being mostly a korean thing but find this article racist and offensive. Comments on this site in general are getting ridiculous.

    • April92

      PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

    • http://twitter.com/DeniseHuxxtable AYO GG

       EXACTLY

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U67SZ37IJIJVTT4Y5GYLDQ6DB4 Bailey

       No, not really.

      You’re probably one of those sorts who went “OMG, Nana in a headdress? Hot and sexy!” (Which it isn’t – THAT is cultural appropriation at it’s finest.)

      • Jazzy115

        For one, I don’t know who nana is, so no I wouldn’t say that. Second, if your going to say “no not really” at least explain your claims. Third, where in anything I wrote gave you the impression that I would find that okay?

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/QWY3XABRR65SGRNPDABSYRUG3Q Jon

          This is a bit off-topic, but a straight person can call anyone sexy if they want to… lol no need to bring sexuality into this! This article is already a battleground T-T haha

          • Jazzy115

            Kk sorry if I sounded ignorant. I will rephrase my post.

  • VLF218

    Ok,

    Speaking as just ONE African American:

    1.) I would just like to say that I think that it is very possible to have a “Street Style” look and sound without being classified as Hip Hop.  I’m a HUGE Blackjack but I wouldn’t classify their sound as Hip Hop but their look is definitely more on the street side.  They just have more of an edge to their look and sound compared to other girl groups.  IGAB was an attempt at Hip Hop but it was just “Street” with some ayego thrown in 

    2.) As an African American I am very aware of the roots of Hip Hop but the way it was put in the article it made it seem like the only people who were certified to use it is African Americans.  I really don’t understand how anyone could think this way.  Hip Hop, when first introduced, was about the struggles of African Americans and their dissatisfaction with the government; if I’m not mistaken, that concept transcends any race or Nationality.  No one is parading around in black face or anything or even claiming to be “Black” so what is there to be offended about??

    3.) Epik High did not change when they signed with YG.  They went through some pretty tough stuff for the past year of so and they wanted a brighter sound this time around.  IT’S JUST ONE ALBUM and I know that nothing changed because if you look at Tablo’s Fever’s End albums that was very much the Tablo/Epik High we are familiar with.  Besides they said they already had those songs before they even came to YG

    4.) Once again I think some people are reading a little far into simple things

    • AcadiasFire

      I was about to say the same thing. I see the style as street not hip hop.

  • Ava Amor

     Bandanas don’t belong to black people, but when used in the context of hip hop, they have an extremely negative connotation. That’s all people mean by that. Like when you think of them you think gym or working women in the late 18th century. Its different when they’re seen in a hip hop video or a video for a song simulating a hip hop song.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1611609402 Madison Rubert

    This article is dirt the end

  • NinjasRpplToo

    Even though I find a lot of Kpop’s attempts at hip hop cringe worthy I can’t say that this article is exactly fair. I feel that you have used the wrong examples in your article and in all honesty it seems like this whole culture appropriation thing is just some cover up to talk about how much you actually just don’t like these groups or their songs. I don’t believe you believe half the things you wrote in this article. If you had just come out and said, ” I just don’t like it!” you probably would get less flack and at least then I would respect it as just your opinion. Then again I could be totally wrong.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U67SZ37IJIJVTT4Y5GYLDQ6DB4 Bailey

    You… what… You can’t “culturally appropriate” hip hop. “Cultural appropriation” does not work that way. The Native American instances ARE cultural appropriation. This? Not on your life.

    • http://twitter.com/Destined2beboss Destiny

      and why is it not?

      “Appropriation practice involves the ‘appropriation’ of ideas, symbols, artefacts, image, sound, objects, forms or styles from other cultures, from art history, from popular culture or other aspects of man made visual or non visual culture”

      • Elizabeth San

        Yeah, so if you view hip hop as element of pop culture (music/fashion), then it can be appropriated, but it isn’t an example of cultural appropriation. If you view it as the author of the article intended, as a a cultural element, then cultural appropriation is possible. Just nitpicking semantics…couldn’t help myself >.<

  • mangochic

    I think the aegyo- hip hop mix in the IGAB and Ice cream was cringe worthy even though I understand they are tailoring it to their image.

  • http://twitter.com/KARASNSD2011 少女時代YOONAISM

    wow the most pretentious article i have read this year. Granted 2013 just started but still…

  • http://twitter.com/KARASNSD2011 少女時代YOONAISM

    wow the most pretentious article i have read this year. Granted 2013 just started but still…

  • http://twitter.com/AresChoco Ares

    I see Seoulbeats still loves to over analyze pop music by using pseudo intellectual bullshit to try to get their nonexistent point across. You’re taking this cultural appropriation matter way too far and see it absolutely everywhere, it’s becoming ridiculous. It’s such a shame most of the articles on this site have become cringe worthy.

  • http://twitter.com/AresChoco Ares

    I see Seoulbeats still loves to over analyze pop music by using pseudo intellectual bullshit to try to get their nonexistent point across. You’re taking this cultural appropriation matter way too far and see it absolutely everywhere, it’s becoming ridiculous. It’s such a shame most of the articles on this site have become cringe worthy.

  • http://twitter.com/AresChoco Ares

    I see Seoulbeats still loves to over analyze pop music by using pseudo intellectual bullshit to try to get their nonexistent point across. You’re taking this cultural appropriation matter way too far and see it absolutely everywhere, it’s becoming ridiculous. It’s such a shame most of the articles on this site have become cringe worthy.

  • http://twitter.com/AresChoco Ares

    I see Seoulbeats still loves to over analyze pop music by using pseudo intellectual bullshit to try to get their nonexistent point across. You’re taking this cultural appropriation matter way too far and see it absolutely everywhere, it’s becoming ridiculous. It’s such a shame most of the articles on this site have become cringe worthy.

  • http://twitter.com/AresChoco Ares

    I see Seoulbeats still loves to over analyze pop music by using pseudo intellectual bullshit to try to get their nonexistent point across. You’re taking this cultural appropriation matter way too far and see it absolutely everywhere, it’s becoming ridiculous. It’s such a shame most of the articles on this site have become cringe worthy.

  • http://twitter.com/AresChoco Ares

    I see Seoulbeats still loves to over analyze pop music by using pseudo intellectual bullshit to try to get their nonexistent point across. You’re taking this cultural appropriation matter way too far and see it absolutely everywhere, it’s becoming ridiculous. It’s such a shame most of the articles on this site have become cringe worthy.

  • http://twitter.com/AresChoco Ares

    I see Seoulbeats still loves to over analyze pop music by using pseudo intellectual bullshit to try to get their nonexistent point across. You’re taking this cultural appropriation matter way too far and see it absolutely everywhere, it’s becoming ridiculous. It’s such a shame most of the articles on this site have become cringe worthy.

  • http://twitter.com/babycokes K-popping Dem Pills

    TBH, I do understand where the author is coming from. I could talk all night about this but this is my quick two cents.

    However, as a black person, I am not offended by the use of hip hop in the slightest. Hip Hop culture has been spun off into a style. There is not much substance and meaning attached to in it in the way there use to be. The most reaction is causes from me is a eye roll from time to time to the people who claim the act is authentic but it really is just… 

    In terms of style, not even US rappers dress “hip hop” any more, even they know that it was a style and didn’t really wear it for a specific reason for e.g. the bandanna thing. In urban areas, Bandana was originally used to rep what gang/area people where from (as well as wrapping your hair up). Now? you have rappers like A$AP and Kayne who wear black bandannas with their Versace buttoned up shirts not because it has significant meaning but because it is fashion and it looks good and gives them more of a gangster look but not because they are one if you know what I mean.

    Anyways you can usually tell who is genuinely interested in the culture (Zico, BB, CL and Minzy, Bang gok for e.g.) and/or use rap for what it was initially made fore – telling a story in a rhythm in the most creative way you can or who is just doing it for show and I usually don’t take the people who are doing it for show seriously so *shrug*. But saying that, there has been the some cases of cultural appropriation that has gone a bit too far resulting in pissing me off.

    Let me stop now before I start on that side. 

    It’s a bit of a tricky topic isn’t it?…

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • http://whutderrfakqizvat.blogspot.com Rice

    I have a hunch this idea came about because most of us are tad shocked (SB peeps incl.) by IGAB by GG whom we are more well versed with aegyoness in GEE/KISSING YOU days. Taking this song concept as one eg., theyre really trying to hard with every mashup of styles and left with confusion, since it is the trend.

    Hyuna does it fine, its her look since CHANGE. Hiphop, pelvis thrust, strong and high fashion attitude.

    2ne1 is already in their own league wo the sex appeal at its minimal.

    Its prolly addressing how snsd is confuse by their own to be in trend and all their fans no mattter what will love it wo being rational. I mean, leave this style to f(x), what will they portray now? Snsd is beautiful elegantly, beauitfully, and cutely. No need the colorful grunge street look and pushing rap n all – IGAB has a confusing melody but chorus gets fun.

    Aegyo hiphop will of course exist. Like kawaii hiphop from jpop if any. Kawaii and aegyo, we WILL forgive them right? ;)
    Music is music the 21st century has opened so many endless possibilities to create new styles of music, amalgamated. Chill, and enjoy.

  • cece22

    Ive read this article and I totally agree with you on everything youve said .You are very brave to put this article out with the constant sea of delusional and bat shit crazy kpop fans that live in todays world, its such a shame. Kpop is absolutely nothing new or authentic, at least 90 %(if not more)of everything kpop is and does comes from black poeple and  their culture. For the ignorant poeple out there hip hop originated from an underground movement of struggles and beats. Its really sad because kpop artists dont contribute anything artistically they just COPY!!!!!!!!!!!! Then  they try to pass it off to america like snsd did in their  hot mess of a track “The Boys” (it was a disaster). Seriously my third grade sister could have made a better song,COMPLETE TRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to the billionth power. Now some of you may be thinking Im to harsh or Im a troll but Im not. Ive just grown up with the Beatles, Michael Jackson,Whitney Houston,Aretha Franklin ect… and so many other amazing artists and Im a music fan that demands real music. I noticed in the comment section people were stating music is music and in a way I agree there is good music and bad music.  Im so sick of kpop just straight up copying with absolutely no talent and americans just eating the trash their feeding us like we dont no what real music is. I mean weve produced the best artists in the world what the hell is this world coming to.Kpop artists are so mediocore most of the members in the groups cant sing or dance their just their for looks and the ones that have talent its so forced and most of it isnt natural. Im going to close now and say that I love this article and all your pionts were extremely valid and true.

    • RC_RC

      Your ‘story’ doesn’t impress me, too many clichés. 

      I’ve grown up listening to Bach, Beethoven, Liszt and Coltrane, I still listen to them but I also listen to Kpop. Why? I listen to Kpop because I like Kpop. 

      Yes, we know, hiphop was once underground but that was long ago. 

      Korean artist often use Swedish composers just like American artists do, no difference. 

      • cece22

        Ok, so whats your point? Its not a crime to like Kpop. You can like what ever the hell you want. That was not the point I was trying to make about Kpop. I hate to sound like a broken record but all I was saying was that Kpop is not original. You take away the beats,the dancing and the style, then they have nothing that they contributed to the music, just their language. Also it doesnt matter if you use Swedish composers, star choreographers or Michael Jacksons pubic hair braider. When it comes down to the actual music and the natural talent, no matter how much a computer can cover flaws, if the talent isnt there then its never gonna be there. Kpop is nothing new or original that was my piont it just flat out copying with no artistic ability they just sing words in their Korean language to the beat. I mean American music isnt much better but we created the genres and it seems like Kpop just wants to feed us the same trash but in Korean have they lost it? But their will always be delusional poeple who think that Kpop is some great music of our time Im just like please get real. It is what it is mediocracy at its finest.

        • RC_RC

          So I don’t commit a crime by liking Kpop? You are so kind and tolerant. You deserve the best place in heaven! 

          Here a tribute especially for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGhz-sqoXC0 

        • RC_RC

          So I don’t commit a crime by liking Kpop? You are so kind and tolerant. You deserve the best place in heaven! 

          Here a tribute especially for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGhz-sqoXC0 

          • cece22

            Iam kind thank you so much. Also I notice you didnt or couldnt refute any of my points. Well how about that. Please dont be a delusional fan your whole life.

          • RC_RC

            Why should I only listen to American music and the Beatles?

            You do absolutely nothing to dispel the myth that Americans are arrogant.

            Your jingoistic attitude, your unkindness, your arrogance and your intolerance are not a good way to promote American culture to me. How many of your fellow Americans have the same attitude as you have? I hope not that many. You really top it when it comes to arrogance. Do you eat freedom fries?

            You are delusional if you think that you are promoting American culture. Go watch Honey Boo Boo!!

            I’m a bit done with American culture and people like you are the reason why.

          • RC_RC

            Why should I only listen to American music and the Beatles?

            You do absolutely nothing to dispel the myth that Americans are arrogant.

            Your jingoistic attitude, your unkindness, your arrogance and your intolerance are not a good way to promote American culture to me. How many of your fellow Americans have the same attitude as you have? I hope not that many. You really top it when it comes to arrogance. Do you eat freedom fries?

            You are delusional if you think that you are promoting American culture. Go watch Honey Boo Boo!!

            I’m a bit done with American culture and people like you are the reason why.

          • RC_RC

            Why should I only listen to American music and the Beatles?

            You do absolutely nothing to dispel the myth that Americans are arrogant.

            Your jingoistic attitude, your unkindness, your arrogance and your intolerance are not a good way to promote American culture to me. How many of your fellow Americans have the same attitude as you have? I hope not that many. You really top it when it comes to arrogance. Do you eat freedom fries?

            You are delusional if you think that you are promoting American culture. Go watch Honey Boo Boo!!

            I’m a bit done with American culture and people like you are the reason why.

          • cece22

            How Am I being arrogant because Im telling the truth about Kpop. When it comes down to it Kpop is just copied American music with Korean lyrics.Here is what Iam talking about when I mention delusional Kpop fans. They put this ridiculous genre of music on a pedestal and act like its Gods gift to mankind. I just see it as it is.Also delusional fans want to hate on American music and whine about it. HEY GENIUS, WITHOUT AMERICAN MUSIC KPOP WOULDNT EXIST BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO COPY FROM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pease get a clue and Ill pray for you.

          • RC_RC

            But Kpop exists and I’m listening to it. Even a freedom fries eating arrogant American jingoist like you admits that American music is hardly any better.

            I’m not going to listen to for example Whitney Houston and your kind words of encouragement don’t help. Coltrane that is something different, but something like Whitney Houston no. Why don’t you promote your culture in a positive way instead of bashing other cultures and calling people delusional who don’t follow your orders, why so bossy?

            In the Far East new cultures are coming into existence and those cultures are fascinating cultures and change rapidly, I love walking in the streets of for example Taipei and Seoul and watching the people and listening to the music in the streets. I like both the old and the new stuff in the Far East, it is both a dynamic world and a world with traditions.

            I decided to walk on different roads, 5 years ago I was walking on your roads, now I walk on different roads, I’m sorry. Maybe you can convince me to walk on your roads again but please try to do that in a nice and polite way.

            And you will say that my new roads are just a copy of your roads. Well so be it, the more I walk on those different roads the more differences I see and the more I like my new roads.

            I believe that every road is a gift of God to mankind so you can keep walking on your roads. I understand that they give you everything you need because your roads are excellent roads but I needed a change.

          • cece22

            You keep writing to me but you’re still saying nothing. I’m not calling
            you delusional because your not following my orders.I’m calling you
            delusional because you keep tiptoeing around the point I’m bringing up.
            You can call me all the names you choose but that still won’t change the
            fact that most Kpop artists are untalented copycats who add nothing to
            the genre they supposedly are representing. Instead however they just go
            through the motions and act like what their doing is something the
            world has never seen before. Plus you’re also regarding Whitney Houston
            who had one of the greatest known voices of all time. The supposed road
            you’re referring to in music was created and paved by American
            musicians. Now the new road you mention looks appealing from a far away
            distance but when you truly investigate it you see that it’s exactly the
            same path but with less originality and skill. Apparently this bothers you but I just see Kpop as it is. If that upsets you than that’s you’re problem not mine.

          • RC_RC

            I know that I should be grateful that an American like you decided that it is not illegal for me to listen to kpop, but why do you think that your decision is important to me? Is it because of arrogance?

            Whitney Houston doesn’t offer the same quality as for example Beethoven and she also doesn’t offer something new, it sounds dated and boring to me, Beethoven is much older stuff but not dated or boring.

            Like I said before the more I listen to kpop the more differences I hear and the more I like it. People in the West often say that that Asians only copy but that is just Western arrogance, you see that it is not true when you visit the Far East.

            You pray for me? Many Americans think that God is always on their side and never on the side of people from other countries, that shining city upon the hill stuff. People from other countries are just Godless swamp dwellers who need Americans as an intermediary to God. Don’t you think that that is a bit arrogant? Do you think that disagreeing with you is disagreeing with God?

            And what am I supposed to do, should I listen to American music even when I’m a bit done with that music and the makers of that music? I don’t think so.

          • cece22

            Oh hello if it isnt you again. Why are you always so defensive SMH you really arent getting the piont of this discussion.Americans degrading K-pop? Nah, K-pop is doing a fine job of that to itself. Why is seeing a knockoff product and calling a spade a spade making me the height of American arrogance. Especially when the majority of the K-pop world revolves around conceding to American pop by default around every corner. Although the top three Korean talent agencies made some progress in the past 5 years in the U.S. market, why can’t they appeal to a larger crowd? Allow me to educate you. The answer is simple, their product is not only extremely outdated but their are three other major factors. 1.CREATIVITY: This is a huge factor because K-pop awkwardly borrowed the 1990s sound of American dance music and kept the same sound for over a decade. The Korean producers neglected developing a unique sound while the American pop music scene was drastically changing in the past 10 years. The dance routines are predictable and the lyrics always talk about the same typical love story. As a result, the lack of creativity inevitably shaped K-pop to look extremely outdated in the U.S. market.2. DIVERSITY: People may have wondered why all the K-pop songs sound the same. K-pop lacks diversity. I believe it is possible to develop different styles even under the same genre; however, the Korean producers only focus on one style. If there were more diverse styles of K-pop, K-pop would have had more chance of appealing to a wider range of audience.
            3.SUSTAINABILITY: The average lifespan of a K-pop boy band or girl group is only 2-3 years. The Korean agencies expect their K-pop groups to make it big in such a short period of time. If they fail, the agencies simply replace the old groups with the younger groups. It is a waste of time and resources to abandon a group after harshly training them for 8 to 10 years. The Korean producers need to be more patient and consistent. The U.S. music market is the most competitive market in the world, and it takes years of endless effort to become successful in the American music industry. In conclusion Id like to say that of course I dont believe disagreeing with me is like disagreeing with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I just said Id pray for you because you seem a little delusional thats all you can take it how you want. Anyways it was lovely talking to you again. Until next time.

          • Elizabeth San

            The real problem here with your theory is that you believe Americans own pop music. In reality, variations of the pop genre exist all over the world, including Korea. Who are you to say that American pop was the first? The best? The only? Sometimes, when a K-pop artist is trying to break through to the North American market, they write a specific song for that occasion, and the song is meant to sound very similar to North American pop music, to attract the North American audience. Have you listened to a variety of k-pop, or are you just basing your judgments off of “The Boys”, which was not an especially great song?

            Music is universal. K-pop does not directly copy pre-existing songs (bearing in mind that plagiarists exist everywhere). Songs that have an original melody, unique chord progressions, new rhythms aren’t boring rip-offs just because they fit into the pop style mold.

            You remind me of Bill O’Reily, when he said if you listened to Gangnam Style, there weren’t any words. Just gibberish. Yeah, because English is the only language that counts, right? Just because you don’t understand the words, doesn’t mean they aren’t significant.

          • cece22

            American pop music was the first because we invented the genre. Im not just basing my judgement off that horror “the boys” by snsd. I was introduced to kpop during the DBSK popularity era. I was a big fan of kpop at first when the groups actually showed a fair amount of talent. Now they’ve put out so many groups that just are their but lack actual skills and artistic depth. The companies think that just taking pretty people and training them will crank out the perfect idols. More like robots who just go through the motions.I agree with you that music is universal but I think that their is good and bad music and kpop falls in the middle because it doesnt add anything or make itself stand out artistically besides the different language use. I think Bill O’ Reily shouldnt have called the Korean language gibberish but English is the number 1 language in the world and it is America so what did you expect.Thank you for commenting I like these discussions.

    • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

      I mean weve produced the best artists in the world what the hell is this world coming to.

      You just listed The Beatles…

      • cece22

        Oh my gosh your so intelligent SMH. The Beatles are absolutelty the most horrible and nonsignificant band that ever existed. Thats why they are the best selling band in history with not only over 177 million albums sold alone in the United States but also over one billion units in sales around the world. How could I list them? I beg your forgiveness and thank you for you correction.

      • cece22

        Oh my gosh your so intelligent SMH. The Beatles are absolutelty the most horrible and nonsignificant band that ever existed. Thats why they are the best selling band in history with not only over 177 million albums sold alone in the United States but also over one billion units in sales around the world. How could I list them? I beg your forgiveness and thank you for you correction.

      • cece22

        Oh my gosh your so intelligent SMH. The Beatles are absolutelty the most horrible and nonsignificant band that ever existed. Thats why they are the best selling band in history with not only over 177 million albums sold alone in the United States but also over one billion units in sales around the world. How could I list them? I beg your forgiveness and thank you for you correction.

      • cece22

        Oh my gosh your so intelligent SMH. The Beatles are absolutelty the most horrible and nonsignificant band that ever existed. Thats why they are the best selling band in history with not only over 177 million albums sold alone in the United States but also over one billion units in sales around the world. How could I list them? I beg your forgiveness and thank you for you correction.

      • cece22

        Oh my gosh your so intelligent SMH. The Beatles are absolutelty the most horrible and nonsignificant band that ever existed. Thats why they are the best selling band in history with not only over 177 million albums sold alone in the United States but also over one billion units in sales around the world. How could I list them? I beg your forgiveness and thank you for you correction.

        • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

          You may not know it, but the Beatles are actually a British band hailing from Liverpool.

        • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

          You may not know it, but the Beatles are actually a British band hailing from Liverpool.

        • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

          You may not know it, but the Beatles are actually a British band hailing from Liverpool.

        • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

          You may not know it, but the Beatles are actually a British band hailing from Liverpool.

        • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

          You may not know it, but the Beatles are actually a British band hailing from Liverpool.

        • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

          You may not know it, but the Beatles are actually a British band hailing from Liverpool.

        • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

          You may not know it, but the Beatles are actually a British band hailing from Liverpool.

        • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

          You may not know it, but the Beatles are actually a British band hailing from Liverpool.

          • cece22

            Well no duh sherlock but the reason why they are so famous was because they came to America and they are considered an American Band from Britian.But apparentely since you didnt know that Im very happy I can educate the less inteligent.

          • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

            they are considered an American Band from Britian.

            ….

            …waitwhaaaaa?

          • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

            “they are considered an American Band from Britian”

            The FUCK are you saying? Their American debut was a result of Beatlemania, not the other way around. And NO, NO ONE considers them Americans. Absolutely no one! McCartney got knighted by the Queen, for fucks sake.

            I bet you think Elton John is American too.

          • Elizabeth San

            Holy damn, forget about being respectful for a second, and let me say you have got to be either the most arrogant idiot in the world (because good things only come from America? America did not make The Beatles what they were, and it does not magically turn everything it touches into gold. Sorry to disappoint you. >.<), or a successful troll.

          • cece22

            Are you living on planet Reptar? America has the biggest and best music industry in the world. How stupid are you? Why do you think so many musicians from different countries and especially mediocore Kpop acts are trying to make it into America fool.

          • Elizabeth San

            Who said I was denying that international musicians and musical acts are trying to break through to the North American market? The North American market is practically global, and so it receives a lot of attention, whether or not it is deserved. Of course it makes sense for North American talent to thrive in the North American music industry, and of course it makes sense for you, an American, to believe that American music is the best.

            The success of an artist in the North American market is not always linked to the overall talent or musicality of the artist (that is, there will be more North American artists reaching success than foreign artists, within the North American industry. There will also be thousands of highly talented, original (foreign) artists who never end up with recognition over here. The North American industry receives a lot of global attention, so *of course* you can say that America produces some of the best acts, even though many of those people are less talented than other artists…I kind of think you’re missing my point). I mean, Kesha’s pretty popular, right? Or she was, anyway… But when I hear her music, I cringe, and worry for the state of the music scene as it is, where even North American music has turned into a mess of generic, unoriginal noise. Speaking as a music lover, turning on the radio these days is generally upsetting, and I’m sure you can understand, as you stated that you grew up listening to amazing bands and artists. It’s your sense of North American elitism that I find unsettling.

            It’s true that a lot of K-pop has a very formulaic process behind it. “Factory made” is a term often used to describe the groups and their music, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t some amazing K-pop artists out there. It’s unfair to generalize.

            At the end of the day, what do you think matters more to a passionate musician? Fame and money, or producing work they can stand behind? PSY’s stupid song received so much attention in North America, but I doubt it meant very much to him, considering everyone loved it because it had a catchy tune and a memorable, gimmicky dance. Not many people over here cared or cared to learn about what the lyrics meant, and what the scenes in the music video represented. Assuming that PSY cares about his work, and it seems as though he does, I’m sure he would have been more satisfied if the song received attention for its deeper meaning, instead of just the surface appeal.

            All I wanted to do was point out that the idea that “what we have is bigger, better, shinier, etc.” is arrogant and narrow-minded. That, and The Beatles would have kicked ass regardless of what North America had to say about it. Even if they never reached a state of popularity over here, what they did to the music world would not have been irrelevant. They were geniuses, and being a British band does not take away from that.

          • cece22

            You are so hilarious to me because of your constant ridiculousness.Every time I read your delusional comments I don’t know whether to laugh my butt off or feel sorry for you. America has sense forever ago set the standard for music all across the globe theirs no if’s,and’s or butt’s about that. I don’t disagree with you on your spiel about “thousands of highly talented, original (foreign) artists who never end up with recognition over here”. In fact I think that they should be allowed a chance to succeed. However the problem is that Kpop doesn’t qualify as talented or original because they lack both things. Just because they copy from all American made music styles in Korean language doesn’t mean anything. The product that you get from the outcome is like a fake Gucci or Prada purse. Never as spectacular as the real thing,easily spotted as not original,lack of skill and talent in the making of the product and cheap. Also in America what we have is better so deal with it.

          • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

            “America has sense forever ago set the standard for music all across the globe”

            You know there was an amazingly creative electronic dance scene in Europe before that genre became mainstream right? There’s a reason Daft Punk is French. And once again, ignoring the entire British pop/rock scene, and that’s not even bringing up centuries of classical music development.

            Your idea of American cultural exceptionalism is ridiculously laughable. You’re the kind of American foreigners make fun of.

          • cece22

            Your so not worth my time. All you idiots keep dodging the subject and point I’m trying to make about talentless,copying Kpop.You keep going on stupid irrelevant tangents. Whoever you are please one day wake up and stop being delusional.

          • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

            I am not delusional. I never said anything about K-Pop being original or groundbreaking.

            You however seem to believe American pop culture is the apex of cultural development, which is obscenely chauvinistic and laughably ignorant. American pop culture is by no means a standard for the rest of the world.

          • cece22

            Are you mentally disturbed. The beats,the sound, basically everything that American pop has is a basis for what pop music around the world is. Especially unoriginal Korean pop. Most pop music sounds the same. I don’t even know what your point is.

          • cece22

            Also let me address the last part about “some talented Kpop artists”. Of course their are some talented Kpop artists.For example Onew from Shinee has an amazing voice. But Kpop itself derives from specific groups and in those group your lucky if more than one member can truly sing. Its an absolute disgrace and shame. Especially when you add the factor that they’ve been “trained” for a couple of years. On Kpop Star, Supearls, the group, had more vocal ability and sung “The Boys” better than Snsd. Its pathetic how mediocore Kpop is.

        • RC_RC

          Do you really don’t understand what Arbitrary_greay is trying to communicate to you?

          • cece22

            Thank you for feeling the need to comment on everything I write Im so flattered.

          • RC_RC

            I wasn’t commenting, I was just asking a question.

          • cece22

            Youre still writing to me so thank you.

          • RC_RC

            You are welcome!

    • http://twitter.com/KariiDel89 Karii ㋡

      I’m not gonna sh** on music and/or music artist, since I do consider myself a music junkie. So, my opinion is if you don’t like it. Don’t listen to it. I will agree strongly with you @cece22 saying a lot of these commentors are very ignorant (purposely ignorant) and delusional. They can’t take criticism, and a lot of it has been along the lines “Oppa didn’t mean it”, “but it’s not racist/prejudice if” sort of thing. The entire article gave headway into a “new concept” given to Kpop artist AND was NOT exclusive to GG as Mark named other artist. Still, we have a lot of hard-die SONE’s that have gotten things mixed up. I wonder if they ever consider how Insooni and Tasha Reid would feel or have to say about this. Yes, they did grow up in Korean culture, but the point I’m making, (@twitter-17762101:disqus please read carefully also) is that they as biracial women caught a lot of flak for their appearance in a country that is almost completely homogeneous. It’s very insulting to anyone to see their culture being exploited/fixated upon in any way or form. To be oppressed and then to have your oppressors say “Well this is cool, I’m gonna wear it to look cool and original” is blatantly insulting. I’m sure they (Insooni/Tasha) have their stomachs in knots whenever they see how one-half of their ethnic background is being admired/fetishized objectively for all the wrong reasons and worst manner. This was the point Mark was trying to make, instead of having his head axed off maybe if a lot of the readers took the time to read more into these subjects and tried to understand where Mark and those that agree with him come from. He gave you an article to make you think, I think the least many can do is Google this ish up. I mean, the majority took the time to bash Mark, right? So, why can’t anyone do something constructive.

      • cece22

        You brought up many good pionts with your response. Im very estatic that Ive found a reply that was actually great so thank you.When I wrote my first comment is was to give what Ive noticed in the Kpop industry. If you say one observation that youve noticed about a serious lacking in Kpop your instantly a troll.It is very sad but true.

      • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

        “This was the point Mark was trying to make”

        Then he completely failed to do so. This article condenses to nothing more but ‘combining aegyo and hip-hop as in IGAB is “detestable” “disrespectful” “problematic” and a “most criminal form of cultural appropriation”‘. That thesis is absurd, narrowminded and chauvinistic.

        I’m sure Insooni/Tasha enjoy having their legitimate grievances with Korean perspective on biraciality being shoehorned into a nonsensical tirade to pretend the author’s distaste for aegyo hip-hop is anything more than a matter of preference. IGAB, and the other examples, by no means deserves such grotesque condemnation. It is merely a ruse to create controversy where there is none.

        And that’s more offensive to Insooni/Tasha’s troubles than IGAB ever will be. That’s why this is the worst article on Seoulbeats.

  • hippocampus123

    Lol at the vitriol on here. But congrats Mark! Look at all these comments! You’re famous!

    P.S. I honestly don’t care if they’re ripping off other styles but why oh why must they be such ugly outfits?

  • hippocampus123

    Lol at the vitriol on here. But congrats Mark! Look at all these comments! You’re famous!

    P.S. I honestly don’t care if they’re ripping off other styles but why oh why must they be such ugly outfits?

  • hippocampus123

    Lol at the vitriol on here. But congrats Mark! Look at all these comments! You’re famous!

    P.S. I honestly don’t care if they’re ripping off other styles but why oh why must they be such ugly outfits?

  • hippocampus123

    Lol at the vitriol on here. But congrats Mark! Look at all these comments! You’re famous!

    P.S. I honestly don’t care if they’re ripping off other styles but why oh why must they be such ugly outfits?

  • hippocampus123

    Lol at the vitriol on here. But congrats Mark! Look at all these comments! You’re famous!

    P.S. I honestly don’t care if they’re ripping off other styles but why oh why must they be such ugly outfits?

  • SB_Mark

    Dear Readers,

    I’ve been tracking the comments on here and it seems that this article has somehow created what some have described as a “warlike” environment. It was not my intention to offend anyone but to entice further discussion on the matter and it seems that I’ve managed to do both. As for the reason I feel people are offended and in return feel the need to offend others, it’s largely due to how strongly some of us feel about the topic.

    As you may or may not tell, I too feel strongly about the topic and the position that I’ve taken has much to do with my background. While I do not in any way represent those who observe and practice hip hop or African-American culture, having viewed my own culture being stereotyped and culturally appropriated in the American mainstream, I can strongly empathize with those who share the same sense of anger as I do when they see remnants of the culture which they hold as sacred being portrayed in a way that is ultimately disrespectful. In fact, the main reason I’ve taken a particular liking to K-pop is because I don’t see aspects of my own culture being appropriated, but it’s unfortunate that I see so many others that are. Here’s the article I wrote on that particular issue. http://seoulbeats.com/2012/12/hallyu-s-a-k-pops-appeal-to-asian-americans/

    I don’t expect all of you to feel the same way as I do. For those who never undergone some of the pains that others have gone through of seeing their cultural relics which have vast social and historical meaning become stripped of its significance by taking it out of their cultural context, I can see why you would feel that the article is merely telling you that you can’t say this or wear that. There are certain things which specific groups of people hold sacred and that just because one form of cultural appropriation doesn’t offend myself or my group, it still offends droves of other people. And to tell those people (in an offensive manner) that they’re making too big a deal out of nothing is highly offensive to those who already feel that their culture has been trashed. Hence, the “warzone” which we have bared witness to.

    Finally, I’d like to remind everyone that we encourage proper etiquette and manners in our comments section to ensure high quality discussions. I very much appreciate those of you who’ve put your adrenaline levels on check and composed respectful comments. I find that your points become much clearer and more meaningful when they are written in an objective tone. Having said that, I’ve learned a lot from your threads and I encourage us to further explore the topic with one another in a calm and appropriate manner. Thanks!

  • SB_Mark

    Dear Readers,

    I’ve been tracking the comments on here and it seems that this article has somehow created what some have described as a “warlike” environment. It was not my intention to offend anyone but to entice further discussion on the matter and it seems that I’ve managed to do both. As for the reason I feel people are offended and in return feel the need to offend others, it’s largely due to how strongly some of us feel about the topic.

    As you may or may not tell, I too feel strongly about the topic and the position that I’ve taken has much to do with my background. While I do not in any way represent those who observe and practice hip hop or African-American culture, having viewed my own culture being stereotyped and culturally appropriated in the American mainstream, I can strongly empathize with those who share the same sense of anger as I do when they see remnants of the culture which they hold as sacred being portrayed in a way that is ultimately disrespectful. In fact, the main reason I’ve taken a particular liking to K-pop is because I don’t see aspects of my own culture being appropriated, but it’s unfortunate that I see so many others that are. Here’s the article I wrote on that particular issue. http://seoulbeats.com/2012/12/hallyu-s-a-k-pops-appeal-to-asian-americans/

    I don’t expect all of you to feel the same way as I do. For those who never undergone some of the pains that others have gone through of seeing their cultural relics which have vast social and historical meaning become stripped of its significance by taking it out of their cultural context, I can see why you would feel that the article is merely telling you that you can’t say this or wear that. There are certain things which specific groups of people hold sacred and that just because one form of cultural appropriation doesn’t offend myself or my group, it still offends droves of other people. And to tell those people (in an offensive manner) that they’re making too big a deal out of nothing is highly offensive to those who already feel that their culture has been trashed. Hence, the “warzone” which we have bared witness to.

    Finally, I’d like to remind everyone that we encourage proper etiquette and manners in our comments section to ensure high quality discussions. I very much appreciate those of you who’ve put your adrenaline levels on check and composed respectful comments. I find that your points become much clearer and more meaningful when they are written in an objective tone. Having said that, I’ve learned a lot from your threads and I encourage us to further explore the topic with one another in a calm and appropriate manner. Thanks!

  • SB_Mark

    Dear Readers,

    I’ve been tracking the comments on here and it seems that this article has somehow created what some have described as a “warlike” environment. It was not my intention to offend anyone but to entice further discussion on the matter and it seems that I’ve managed to do both. As for the reason I feel people are offended and in return feel the need to offend others, it’s largely due to how strongly some of us feel about the topic.

    As you may or may not tell, I too feel strongly about the topic and the position that I’ve taken has much to do with my background. While I do not in any way represent those who observe and practice hip hop or African-American culture, having viewed my own culture being stereotyped and culturally appropriated in the American mainstream, I can strongly empathize with those who share the same sense of anger as I do when they see remnants of the culture which they hold as sacred being portrayed in a way that is ultimately disrespectful. In fact, the main reason I’ve taken a particular liking to K-pop is because I don’t see aspects of my own culture being appropriated, but it’s unfortunate that I see so many others that are. Here’s the article I wrote on that particular issue. http://seoulbeats.com/2012/12/hallyu-s-a-k-pops-appeal-to-asian-americans/

    I don’t expect all of you to feel the same way as I do. For those who never undergone some of the pains that others have gone through of seeing their cultural relics which have vast social and historical meaning become stripped of its significance by taking it out of their cultural context, I can see why you would feel that the article is merely telling you that you can’t say this or wear that. There are certain things which specific groups of people hold sacred and that just because one form of cultural appropriation doesn’t offend myself or my group, it still offends droves of other people. And to tell those people (in an offensive manner) that they’re making too big a deal out of nothing is highly offensive to those who already feel that their culture has been trashed. Hence, the “warzone” which we have bared witness to.

    Finally, I’d like to remind everyone that we encourage proper etiquette and manners in our comments section to ensure high quality discussions. I very much appreciate those of you who’ve put your adrenaline levels on check and composed respectful comments. I find that your points become much clearer and more meaningful when they are written in an objective tone. Having said that, I’ve learned a lot from your threads and I encourage us to further explore the topic with one another in a calm and appropriate manner. Thanks!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/26AOR2RR6ITHVUFLZJD5UJPZM4 Dana

      LOL @ you using the ‘race’ card as an excuse for your dumb article.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/26AOR2RR6ITHVUFLZJD5UJPZM4 Dana

      LOL @ you using the ‘race’ card as an excuse for your dumb article.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

        When you use a term like the “race card”, you are already showing how ignorant you are. 

    • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

      “detestable””disrespectful”
      “problematic”
      “the most criminal form of cultural appropriation”

      If you use such strong-worded language to not just criticise, but practically condemn SNSD’s latest song, you better make sure you back it up with a worthy argumentation. But you didn’t. If you condensate this article, the basic issue remains that a group combined hip-hop elements (fashion and rap) with a Korean element (aegyo, which the author clearly doesn’t attach any value to), and this strongly conflicts with the author’s idea of what hip-hop is ‘supposed’ to be.

      So not only is the thesis incredibly narrowminded (hip-hop influenced media needs to conform to my narrow understanding of it), but also rather artistically chauvinistic (mixing ‘aegyo’ with hip hop is offensive towards hip-hop). This thesis is then coated in the veneer of ‘cultural appropriation’ which is not only obscenely laughable, but implies an arrogant position of completely misplaced moral indignancy, as indicated by your strong-worded accusations. IGAB doesn’t even come close to appropriation. Hip-hop fashion is a global trend and industry now.

      Luckily the world doesn’t work the way your article describes it, and people are free to experiment and include hip-hop elements into whatever genre they want, whichever way to want. And hip-hop artists themselves have not been afraid to mix it up (jazz-rap is a personal favorite variant of mine, ironically one of the more socially conscious ones).

      So no, IGAB is not ‘detestable’. It certainly isn’t ‘disrespectful’ (to who? to what?). And it’s not even close to being the ‘most criminal form of ‘cultural appropriation’. Such appeals at emotional pathos only serve to cover up you don’t have a real argument for your position.

      In the end, this is simply a really bad article, complaining about aegyo in hip-hop, noteworthy for the ridiculous justification of what is basically a question of personal taste. In the act, they tastelessly try to find controversy where there is none, a hallmark  of tabloid journalism.

      • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

        EXACTLY. The exact targets chosen in this article and the wording used to attack them lose sight of the actual valid points in the appropriation discussion. 

        I don’t expect all of you to feel the same way as I do. 

        Whoo, boy, not only are you making some huge assumptions about African Americans there, but you make so many assumptions for all of the other ethnic minorities out there. (and as one of them, that’s one of the biggest things pissing me off) An argument must be consistent, and yours doesn’t hold up when put into truly analogous situations.

      • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

        EXACTLY. The exact targets chosen in this article and the wording used to attack them lose sight of the actual valid points in the appropriation discussion. 

        I don’t expect all of you to feel the same way as I do. 

        Whoo, boy, not only are you making some huge assumptions about African Americans there, but you make so many assumptions for all of the other ethnic minorities out there. (and as one of them, that’s one of the biggest things pissing me off) An argument must be consistent, and yours doesn’t hold up when put into truly analogous situations.

    • SariRainMJ

      “Observe and practice hip-hop”… it’s not a religion, or anything that culturally significant to African American people, and that’s the problem with this thinking. Hip-hop, and all the things that come along with it, are street culture or popular culture. It’s not some sacred practice passed down from generation to generation. I can see your point about some of the gang things that these artists may do without understanding it (like the tattoo under the eyes, however, the example you use reminds me of what kids in the 90s used to do to be cute more than the teardrop gangster would use to signify the amount of people they killed.), but hip-hop as a whole is pretty mainstream, has been for nearly 30 years, and has been a part of world popular culture. It’s not some precious thing that only black people know the true meaning behind. A lot of the kids today that listen to hip-hop don’t even know the true meaning behind the stuff they do; they just know it looks cool. I don’t think most black kids at American high schools could tell you where sagging jeans come from, or where bandana use comes from, or even the origin of a lot of the hip-hop slang they use. And for a lot of these Korean artists, like members of Big Bang or Epik High, they grew up on hip-hop just as much as, or more than, I did, being a black kid in America. It’s not offensive for Asians to use popular hip-hop looks in their videos, sounds in their songs, or slang. It’s just not, and I think we’re missing the point when we demonize people for things like this, instead of going after true problems. It’s a problem that black actors in Hollywood can’t get a lot of good roles. It’s a problem that ethnic characters get cast as white. These are problems. It’s not a problem if SNSD want to put a hip-hop spin in their song. Even if you think it’s problematic, it’s mildly problematic at best, but hardly something to get up in arms about. I would feel more insulted if these people were going around saying ignorant things about Black people (and these instances have happened, and I held them accountable for it), but I’m not offended if they dress in a hip-hop way, speak in a hip-hop way, or make hip-hop influenced music. Most of the music on the radio, these days, is hip-hop influenced. There’s no reason to single out K-pop, if we have a problem with that. Also, we should remember that, while K-pop is pretty big, on a world scale it’s small. So, it’s not exactly like these people are “exploiting black culture” to make themselves bigger. And it’s not like in America, hip-hop will suddenly be replaced by cute Korean girls. I just don’t see any of this as a major problem that people need to concern themselves with. If it’s cultural appropriation, and I’m on the fence about that because it depends on how you’re defining “culture”, it’s mild cultural appropriation, and maybe something to shake your head at but not get up in arms about.
      It’s really getting to point ridiculous. It’s to the point, now, that CL took a picture with A$AP Rocky, and I saw someone say she was exploiting him to show how down she was or whatever. … As if she’s not his fan, and hasn’t taken pictures with other celebrities; white, black, and Asian. So, now, even if a K-pop artist acknowledges a black person, it’s cultural appropriation?

    • http://twitter.com/norimixtoo Norimix

      Beatles ripped off American music, Queen ripped off American music, Eminem ripped off black music, Elvis ripped off black music, Chuck Berry ripped off white music, Ray Charles ripped off white music, Duke Ellington stole the art of music annotation from the white man, Jimi Hendrix stold the guitar from the white man, Jessye Norman stole the white man’s opera music.. Etc..

      If we had to call out everyone who was influenced or copied the style of music they loved as an appopriator where would music be?
      The next thing you know Koreans are expected to pay restitution for the years of black slavery.. XD

  • http://twitter.com/Destined2beboss Destiny

    I 100% see the point the author is trying to get across, and I do agree with alot of their observations and analysis.

    But honestly,
    I would feel more offended by the use of hip hop elements, and this faux hip-hop trend in kpop if African American artists- HIP HOP artists- weren’t doing the same. Unfortunately hip-hop has started to become heavy on visual entertainment and less on history and poetry (now this is mainstream i am talking about. There are PLENTY of underground artists who stay true to the genres original form) . Many of the artists who are of the cultural background that represents hip-hop treat its cultural elements as a thing of fashion and not as a representation.

    I am not saying that this justifies the treatment of hip-hop and its culture by kpop but you  honestly can’t expect those who “don’t share a similar history of oppression!” to be able to portray it properly when the ones giving them the imagery are just as guilty of historical/cultural disassociation.

    As for the aegyo meets hip-hop, the two concepts definitely do not have a link (and the author pointed out how and why). I don’t really see the use of aegyo in a supposedly “hip hop” concept as a disrespect for what it stands for or “benefiting the importing culture at the expense of shunning the exporting one” but more so the groups -mainly female (esp. for SNSD) as keeping that look that Koreans so highly identify as feminine and apart of an “ideal” woman. Yes, more thought could have been put into the clash of these two elements but I don’t see the intent as trying to disrespect hip hop culture but more so them trying to implicate a significant part of theirs into this hip hop concept.

    • http://www.facebook.com/lucaswoodstock Lucas Oliveira Dantas

      EXACTLY! i’ll go further and blatantly point out that most of the article is a huge bunch of whining about how oh-so-perfect hip hop is being raped by the evil and careless industry of k-pop.

      it is very interesting how the author mentions the mainstreaming of hip hop but doesn’t go any further by at least citing its results right there on the main field of hip hop, north america [more especifically in the US]: the culture of bling-bling [that is an objectification of hip hop and rap culture itself], misoginy, homophobia and sometimes [yes!] xenophobia and racism. further on the late 1990’s and early 2000’s, when hip hop and r&b took over the american charts, the change of discuss: now we’re rich so nevermind our own history and let’s talk about how mighty, powerful we are – to later on the decade to just talk about booze, drugs, sex and the dancefloor.

      if you want to consider respect for the cultural context and background of hip hop culture, maybe then we should at first come to terms to the fact that first and biggest sell out is hip hop itself.

      i personally see no problem about that because i don’t see it as pure and simple “selling out”, but as natural changes of directions [and choices] that a cultura might take – and if they’re bad or good is mainly linked to how one deals with changes and tradition.

      but one’s history is forever in their behaviour and actions like a blueprint, even if they change their images and interests. the author mentions snoop [ex-dogg now] lion and he’s a very good example of how much, as a hip hop figure, he has gone onto mainstream but still keeps his gangsta image true to himself and public persona.

      a cultural movement or a culture as a whole cannot and will not remain the same towards the years even if our main impulse is to keep it the way we know and prefer.

      furthermore we’re talking here about cultural appropriation and the mixing of cultures. i’ll give my own culture as an example: as a brazillian interested in international, and of course north american, cultures i’ve seen along the years american artists, especially hip hop ones, come to brazil and the main cultural aspects they depicts are samba, the beaches and brazillian [mostly rio de janeiro] women’s sex appeal.

      why’s it okay to hip hop artists to objectify and take other cultures out of context, but it’s not okay to korean pop, for example, to do the same?

      i mean again, it’s not like hip hop is saint and sacred!

      two years ago nicki minaj and will.i.am released a very lovely video for their collaboration song “check it out”:

      in such video nicki obviously takes not only aegyo, but a lot of the k-pop aesthetic [highly choreographed studio-trapped mv, variety shows premise etc] and makes them her own, being perhaps a north-americanized way of seeing k-pop.

      that is very cool for sure but the contrary, more especifically k-pop taking hip hop and making it its own by aegyo-ing it, is not? do i see a double-standard there?

      • RC_RC

        I have a feeling that some African Americans want both, they want to exploit hiphop commercially in every imaginable way and they also want hiphop to be sacred. 

        Mc Hammer’s “can’t touch this” was released before SNSD member Seohyun was even born. The commercial exploitation of hiphop by African Americans started long ago.

      • RC_RC

        I have a feeling that some African Americans want both, they want to exploit hiphop commercially in every imaginable way and they also want hiphop to be sacred. 

        Mc Hammer’s “can’t touch this” was released before SNSD member Seohyun was even born. The commercial exploitation of hiphop by African Americans started long ago.

        • http://www.facebook.com/lucaswoodstock Lucas Oliveira Dantas

          lol i’ll annoyingly repeat: double standards?

  • MoontosUp

    Although I don’t necessarily agree with this article, I have to say that aegyo and hip hop just don’t mix. EVER.

  • http://twitter.com/sollenatburger Sonwabile Antonie

    I just look at what SNSD or any kpop act are doing as being street fashion because if I start putting kpop and hip-hop in the same sentence then I might as well be dead. Yes Korea has some awsum rappers but kpop does not. When a rapper raps, nobody genuinly listening should think they are ripping off another artist,once that happens then its game over

  • http://twitter.com/KariiDel89 Karii ㋡

    To Mark, you did a great job on the article again shedding the light on the misuse of AA culture and it’s appropriations by music industries (Kpop). To the Seoulbeats frequent readers; either some of you are in denial, scratch that, the majority of you ARE in DENIAL and have FORGOTTEN that this is exclusively a site on/about Kpop. A site that the writers take a majority of their precious time to read, watch, listen, analyze, and cover all of it in it’s entirety. The Kpop machine has, as many writers covered before, many ugly sides, just as well as some good ones. This article is not only written on a basis of “opinion” as many of you have barked about, but on the basis of truth. Here is another ugly truth for you to face…out of the many ethnic backgrounds and minorities( on a WORLDWIDE scale, not just between the boundaries of one country) it is denied the fact that the ONE race which it’s culture has been robbed, misused, whitewashed, and deconstructed for the benefit of others is that of the black race. Above. All. Others. Period. Another thing, if you are not a POM/Non-POC/POC I kindly must tell you from refraining to speak on behalf on such group of folk. One can stand for such group and their cause, but to actually speak on it as if one has experienced it? Please take exit immediately. To say music is universal, yes, knows no barriers, yes, dues/respect been made to an according manner…anyone? Yea, I’ll wait for your answer. To see how many of you *shat on Mark for his well written article makes me believe either, the majority of you are quite ignorant and ill-informed on a subject you don’t know (Which is true). Or, that many of you are hidden SNDS fans in denial. Which makes me ask, WHY are you angry at the criticism laid on this concept image, when these women pretty much have no control on how a company/CEO molds, fabricates, and sells them to throw into the arms of a “loving” public. Some of the comments start off well and end in…whhaaat!? You’ve blurred the line between the criticism Mark made on their comeback and them as individual/group members.

    Listen to an old song by Macklemore “White Privilege”

    For more reference read this article by a Korean citizen and his uncovering of the cultural appropriation of hip-hop within one of the beloved Big 3 companies and the face of the company. http://deliciouskaek.tumblr.com/post/35049751157/lets-talk-about-yg-entertainment

    • http://twitter.com/Mtab_9241 Mtab

      That’s a lot of words to say “the author is right, the critical comments are all ignorant”. No arguments made whatsoever, combined with an attempt to silence the critics.

      Swinging terms around like “cultural appropriation” and “white privilege” around is useless if there’s no actual weight behind those terms. The combination of aegyo and hip-hop has nothing to do with cultural appropriation, privileges, whitewashing or suppression of black people. It is the most absurdly written thesis on this entire website.

      Keep hiding behind the facade of moral indignancy. All in all, this is just a pompous farce designed to critique IGAB as if the song was “the most criminal form of cultural appropriation”. Which is hilarious to any reader not blinded by sheer adoration of the Seoulbeats editorial staff.

      Trash journalism deserves to be called out. And I won’t be silenced because the author has the nerve to disguise his poor thesis in the vocabulary of social justice discourse.

  • moxie91

    I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned how much I can’t stand some of the writers on this site. I get it, you don’t like the symbolism being displayed inappropriately by misguided musicians—but see, that’s the thing—they don’t know any better. It’s like getting mad at a child for cussing the first time, it’s not as if it’s something that can really be punished when they don’t understand the pretense. People learn and grow through time and exposure, and it doesn’t help that the language barrier changes a lot of cultural references and makes them out to be things they aren’t because of misinformation and ignorance. Le sigh.

    I’ve read more than my fair share of articles from this site and I have to say that the POVs are horridly myopic and obscenely one sided. Given the chance to write on this topic I would have gladly pointed out more than just the cons on the subject.

    Aside from the misunderstandings and overstatements—the writer seems to have this image of hip hop as being this disturbing past of the African American culture where everyone was poor and wore du-rags and bandanas for a reason. Hip hop doesn’t equal gangster. Not all “hip hop” artists are hardcore thugs like the Wu or NWA, Biggie, Pac, etc—actually to the contrary, most hip hop isn’t even brought to the media nearly as much as the aforementioned.

    The truest hip hop comes from the underground, the heart of all hip hop. It’s not about the slangin’, or the oppression from way back when, or even “F**k the Police”—it’s the art, and the expression.

    Most hip hop is usually about making a message through your lyrics, consciously, like, The Fugees, or Common, or Blackstar. And then you have the part of hip hop that’s about creative expression and dancing and just being silly so you have groups like: Living Legends & the pharcyde…etc.

    Anyway, I’m rambling. My point is, before you write an article about something, you should definitely learn more about your focal argument point. Especially something as touchy as hip hop.

    I’m a West Coast capitol native, from Sacramento, CA, born and raised in the underground scene so I know a little bit about how things work musically. Also a musician myself so I make it a habit to learn as much as I can about all areas of music.

    I’m also a huge fan of the Korean music scene so I spend a lot of my time doing mind numbing research on their market as well as reception and imagery.

    I’m not sure where else I was trying to go with this but……

    /end rant. toodles.

    • asdflkj

      so Asians are like silly children. That’s not racist in the SLIGHTEST.

    • TheJadeBullet

      Happened upon this article again due to SB’s newly created clusterduck of nonsense over usage of a bindi in 2NE1’s latest release. They really write some incredibly self-righteous articles here on the topic of their perceived “misappropriation” of cultural elements.
      I can agree with almost everything that you’ve said here but I’d like to add that, in my opinion, while it’s nice to hold on to some facets of a culture and have something to call your own, people attach an incredible amount of significance to one particular thing and immediately take the highest degree of offence if anyone outside of their circles attempts to emulate “their culture”. I just don’t understand it.

  • cece22

    Is it just me or does it seem like Kpop groups are relying more on their name than the actual quality of music their putting out . Kpop seemed to be at the height of its glory from 2009-2010. However now it seems like Kpop is just spitting out boring and repetitive horrid songs. IGAB was completely ridiculous and was almost as bad as “The Boys”.

  • Anon…

    It’s okay, this is probably just your opinion. I don’t like IGaB as well. >.>

  • Rebecca M

    Because of SeoulBeats, I’ve started my own K-Pop blog at

    http://kpopforevr.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/k-pops-hidden-gem-mfbtys-sweet-dream.html

  • abnormpsych

    I know I’m late with this response, but I feel that this article has gotten a lot of flack for no reason. I feel where you’re coming from poster and I just want to let you know that I agree with a lot of what you said.

  • asdflkj

    This article is good. The comment section got crazy because crazy delulu sones descended to defend their princesses~.

  • Carly Ray Lin

    HAHAHAHAHAHA Thanks for the laugh, Seoulbeats author, you truly made my day!