• wawasunsun

    It may just be the feminist in me.. but sexualization of anyone – man or woman- is questionable. I resent western media portraying asian girls as sexual objects, so why would it be different for caucasian women in korea.

    The problem not only exists in korea, but all over asia. It is easy to understand why koreans value their women so much (not to say that the rest of the world doesn’t). The nation’s very patriotic (As you have briefly touched upon in your article). 

    However, that being said, there should be no excuse to turn around and set another woman on fire just to protect or elevate your own. Women are women, all over the world. They deserve respect regardless of race. 

    The idea that caucasian women are promiscuous in nature is absurd to anyone who has researched about human sexuality. Sexuality is a human feature, not simultaneous with race. However, from what I have seen, it appears some Koreans find it difficult to deal with this.  

    I understand that we are now falling in to the territory of trying to change the mindset of an entire country, it’s slightly difficult when you’re not Korean yourself. However, I want to clear that where some Koreans think that Caucasian women are the deserving of being objectified in a sexual manner, there are others who do not. It would be very judgmental of me to try and put a human being inside a box, by assuming all of them think a certain way. 

    Its really now a matter of seeing how the next generation forms ideas on this issue. 

    Good article Renie :)

    • Renie_one

      I agree with you. It happens everywhere and it shouldn’t happen with anyone. It’s definitely not only a Korean problem but since this is a site focusing on K-media, K-media is spotlighted. Thank you for the comment!

      • wawasunsun

        no problem :) I always look forward to reading these types of articles I think there is definitely more to Korea than just K-pop. Socio-cultural issues/viewpoints are really interesting and should also be discussed :)

    • Mintmint

      Very insightful comment. If you don’t mind I’d love to comment on a few of the points you’ve made.

      I do think Koreans have trouble in separating race and individual personality/characteristics. I think this may be due to lack of exposure to other races (when you only encounter, say, one black or white person in your life, you may have a higher chance of generalizing when you don’t get a wide variety of people to interact with). The other part is patriotism, which is based on being “Korean” racially/ethnically and culturally. There is a lot of pride involved, sometimes even superiority. And so I believe Korean culture, in its very subtle forms, is tightly interwoven in Kpop idol culture (which is maybe why some of these fangirls are so obsessive). When you think about it, Korean culture objectifies (or praises to the point where they are not actually considered people anymore) celebrities until they are put on pedestals where it feels almost “natural” to revere or worship them.

      On a side note that may not have relevancy at all to your comment, I felt a little disgruntled that Nichkhun and Victoria were labeled the “foreigner couple.” How insulting, really. Who wants to be quarantined or roped off to the side as the strange foreigner couple, separate from the Korean ones? I was hoping Nichkhun (or Victoria) could be paired with a Korean guy/gal but I guess that won’t be happening anytime soon, especially as there is a significant lack of non-Koreans in K-entertainment. If it DOES happen, I wouldn’t be surprised if people start thinking with a “Korean vs. Other” mindset, and start blaming the foreigner if something goes wrong.

      “I understand that we are now falling in to the territory of trying to change the mindset of an entire country, it’s slightly difficult when you’re not Korean yourself.”Hmm, shouldn’t it be both though? Non-Koreans and Koreans working together to understand each other? I think it has to be a mutual relationship where Koreans try to open their minds to accepting others as they would accept any other Korean, while non-Koreans should do the same in trying to respect their culture and not dismissing it as too strange or foreign. I don’t know, it’s kind of like an interractial marriage. There should be compromise on both ends.

      One question though, what do you mean by the next generation? Usually that would mean “our” 80s-90s generation, those who are more or less college-aged by now. However for those who are in their teens-25ish, I think the idols aren’t doing too good of a job being culturally sensitive, although it is greatly improved from previous generations of course. Just curious about what you have to say on that, because I really am interested about whether or not these young idols actually respect other races or they’re just doing what their management companies are telling them to do (who consequently are run by older males).

      • wawasunsun

        Thanks for reading my comment :) I’m glad you found it insightful, Your comment was awesome too i had fun writing a reply :D

        Yes I agree with you. I sincerely believe that through the effort of both parties -Koreans and Non-Koreans- will we see any substantial change. It would be hypocritical for non-Koreans to critique Korea’s lack of understanding of foreigners, when we are reluctant to extend our hands towards them. I wouldn’t call it a ‘compromise’, as that indicates that one or both parties are reluctant to integrate. It really should be a selfless attempt at educating and getting rid of misconceptions to avoid future issues.

        This is why I mentioned the ‘Next Generation’. You were correct in assuming that I had K-pop idols in mind when I wrote this. As you have mentioned, these ‘idols’ are young, in the same age bracket as us (high school to college/university) and are still culturally insensitive. You only have to watch a reality TV show to notice that. 

        An example of this is when Boom returned from the army, he decided to do a ‘Black face’ in an attempt to make people laugh. Or when you watch Star King (probably the biggest culprit of cultural insensitivity in my opinion); there was once a girl invited on the show who was from Saudia Arabia who was of Korean ethnicity, and she came in dressed with a full body veil (burka) and told everyone that ‘It’s against the law to do so and so over there’. All you had to do was look in the comments section to know that her statement was not true. Many people got the impression that Star King was mocking the culture of Saudia Arabia. It got even serious as then Leetuk went on to mock a picture of a Saudi weather woman, who of course was dressed in the veil, and everyone was laughing as if it was a spectacle. Caucasian women also fall culprit to this, for example on 2PM’s show “Wild Bunny”, a group of foreign women came on, and the ‘prettiest’ women who happened to be Caucasian, was portrayed in a way that suggested she was very promiscuous (she couldn’t make up her mind on which  guy to choose and would eye the other members even though she had been partnered up with Nichkhun – a very flirty and loose image). The Spanish girl went on to hold hands with Chansung as soon as greetings were over – and if you know Korean Culture, that is something which is done between couples (sometimes it takes time to be able to hold hands with your partner). Of course the production team made a big deal out of this, and whether intentionally or unintentionally, made the girl seem very flirty. Which is funny because a few episodes back they had Korean girls on, who would blush and giggle when only asked to make ‘eye-contact’. The idea that the Korean is pure and virtuous and that the foreigner is mischievous and loose, is well presented here.

        As you said these celebrities are truly revered, and thus the name ‘idol’ seems to be fitting. Idols have a lot of popularity and with that comes influence and heightened responsibility. If idols were to educate themselves in regards to culture, then they may be able to transfer this to the teens that are their fans. I would say that SHINee is more culturally aware than maybe Boom, because they work internationally. I’m also quite optimistic with the amount of foreign/not native trainees/members present in K-pop today. For instance Amber from f(x), Kris of Exo, Eli and Kevin of U-kiss, Kevin from ZE:A, Tablo (nuff’ said-major respect for the guy) Henry of Super Junior M and of course BoA and DBSK (who aren’t foreign per say, but have experienced a wealth of different cultures as they have been working abroad in Japan, USA etc). What was heartwarming, was that Yunho gave advice to his juniors recently telling them that you should definitely go and learn the culture of the countries you have fans in. If more people like that are present in the K-pop sphere, I hope that it would have a trickle down effect in to influencing the younger teenage fans. It is precisely these young fans who are the children of today, and of leaders of tomorrow.

        As majority of the idols are in the 80s-90s generation right now, and Koreans and Non Koreans have only been talking about these issues of racial insensitivity for the past maybe 5 years or so? I think we will start to see results maybe for the next younger batch of idols, I’m talking about those who are debuting at 15 when we are 30 in the next 10 years or so. It would definitely be interesting to see what happens then.

        ‘I  really am interested about whether or not these young idols actually respect other races or they’re just doing what their management companies are telling them to do (who consequently are run by older males).’It is a question on my mind too, I wonder whether aside from dancing, singing, acting, etc. do companies make it a priority to teach about ethics? I know that JYP teaches sex education which is great, but do they teach about different cultures and religions? You would hope so, as majority of these companies want to expand internationally. As a business student, I have seen that the main cause of failure internationally, is the inability to adapt to local customs and cultures and give them a product that they actually want. Not only is being racially insensitive and ignorant harmful from a human perspective (i.e causing somebody pain from the harsh racist comments such as ‘Caucasian woman are  overtly sexual and promiscuous- keep them away from our women etc’) but also highly detrimental to profits and reputation, from a business perspective.

  • MAR_M3anie

    “Another reason could be that Korea’s conservative society wishes to leave the sexualized acts to foreigners and feed into the false idea of chaste Koreans and overly-sexualized Caucasians.”

    False idea is right…. Every country has it, but South Korea… they haven’t had the feminist movement yet so I definitely don’t see it changing anytime soon.

    South Korea has an interesting dynamic about its culture, prostitution is an accepted part of life for Korean married men (Salary Men) and single men too.  The Grand Narrative & Metropolitan talked about it.

    1. http://thegrandnarrative.com/2010/01/20/korea-sex-marriage-prostitution/

    2. http://metropolitician.blogs.com/scribblings_of_the_metrop/2010/01/pimping-lies-damned-lies-and-statistics.html

    It’s has its complexities and with me being an outsider (Not Korean) I can’t gage what’s really going on but from what you wrote Renie it’s a combination leading with patriarchy and prostitution.

    Someone had posted a link in another thread about a week or so ago- The Don’t Ask Dont Tell trips was really interesting. 

    http://www.dramafever.com/drama/122/1/Shocking_Life_-_Sex/?ap=1

    “The SHOCKING LIFE: Sex documentary series takes you undercover to the uninhibited back streets and dark alleys of Korea. Meet the Pet Guys,young men trapped in a cycle of money and sexual servitude to “sugar mamas.” Take a look at the unglamorous side behind the camera in the Korean adult film industry. Learn more about the disturbing trend of alcohol and promiscuity with “wasted chicks.” Take a ride on the bus with swinging couples on Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell trips. Take heed of the dangerous use of sex drugs with aphrodisiac traps and female sex stimulants. Meanwhile, an increasing positive trend in Korea is safe sex. See how people are becoming more responsible with the condom march.
    And the SHOCKING LIFE investigative team takes a trip to Japan to find out what happens at “kiss bars” and other kinky rendezvous in Shinjuku, Japan”

  • http://twitter.com/cherrychul_ Pooja

    South korea sexualizes every women…also what about black women…oh yeah korea doesn’t talk about black women

    • Renie_one

      It sucks that it happens that way, but at the same time would you rather have a race be objectified or not included almost at all? I wish it wasn’t like this but it looks like that’s what it’d come down to. It’s a dilemma.

      • http://twitter.com/alpacalypse3x0 ─=≡Σ((( つ•̀ω•́)つ

        How can you talk about how you’d rather have white women portrayed in a better light, but then turn around and tell everyone else “Oh, it’s better to be objectified than excluded!” That’s completely backwards.

        • Renie_one

          You obviously didn’t read my comment right.
          I was saying it’s better to be excluded than objectified.

    • http://twitter.com/DeniseHuxxtable S☀L

      They mention black women alright, when it’s time for comedy.

  • asdasdasd53

    same thing can be said about western countries.

    But i swear to god, you have did several articles like this.

  • http://twitter.com/fah2ma Fatouma

    Yay to Eat Your Kimchi shoutout! 

  • Seri Park

    I think these music videos use Caucasian women to appeal to their international fans.  The Caucasian women in Big Bang’s “Hangover” and “Tonight” were not sexualized but were featured as the girlfriends of BB members.

    • Renie_one

      Yeah I agree they did play the girlfriends but you never see them play the cute, bubbly girlfriends like a lot of K-pop videos. I’ve seen a K-pop MV where one did but it is an old one. They’re always sort of like a sex object. In Tonight I thought it was more apparent with the bed scenes for Daesung and TOP. The MV pretty much made it clear that she slept with both men, even suggesting a one night stand with TOP.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ORSXPERTNAEPCKZBGEZMP7A3NU Bianca

        In the case of Big Bang, I must reiterate once again that there are caucasian women specifically because their korean models refused to pose/dress the way the director wanted them to. And this is the case with HIgh High and Knock Out. I’d say Turn it up was a musical advertisement of foreign high end brands, so why use asian models? I bet he never mentioned Yohji Yamamoto or Kawakubo. 

    • Mintmint

      Tonight definitely sexualized the white actress. Like what Renie said, in the last scene of the MV, TOP is buttoning up his shirt and then he leaves while she’s sleeping (harsh!). Daesung “sleeps” with her also.

      You didn’t see the Korean girls rubbing up on TOP and GD during High High. The ones who were all over them were white foreigners.

      • http://twitter.com/lily_of_west CLover/Infiknight

        The girl in the “Tonight” MV is actually Asian-American. Her father is Chinese and her mother is American. She’s a model and a singer currently living in Beijing where she’s trying to build a singing career.

        • Mintmint

          Oh I see, thanks for the info. Honestly for me, it’s sometimes hard to tell the ethnicities that make up a biracial person, so that was my mistake.

          • http://twitter.com/lily_of_west CLover/Infiknight

             No it’s fine you didn’t know. :)

    • A A

      LOL NO. Beautiful Hangover and Tonight are the 2 most unnecessary sexualized women in BB videos. that being said, both girls are not full CAUCASIAN, one is hispanic and the other Asian/Caucasian mix…so smart for everyone to just group everyone none asian as white…

      I’m totally okay with the sexual approach in High High, Knock Out, and Turn It Up, because that was GD&TOP’s playboy album concept. Funny how the author failed to notice the most sexualized mv Baby Goodnight, which featured 2 asian women, so it’s not the race in this case, it’s ALL WOMEN, whether that makes it better or worse depends on your judgement.

      Also caucasians are stereotyped as sexual the same way asians are stereotyped as cute and docile. So you might as well and kill all the cute aegyo groups in kpop. because anyone with a pair of eyes can see they’re fakes used to fulfill sick sexual fantasies about fetish people.

      • Mintmint

        Sorry but your tone sounds kind of mocking. “Funny how the author failed to notice…” and “so smart for everyone to just group…” You don’t have to insult other people to get your point across. We’re just discussing and we NEVER insulted Big Bang or any other group, and it’s really disappointing when we have a great conversation going on and someone has to jump in acting like their thoughts are more superior than everyone else. Thanks…

        • A A

          woahhh uh, are you from seoulbeats

          you guys actually read comments…uh…hi…

          well, i wasn’t insulting anyone, or felt big bang was insulted. nor in my opinion, did i sound like my thoughts are superior. 

          i just expressed my thoughts, made some comments snarlingly. the first one directed at the commenter was mean but come on the girl thought Tonight wasn’t sexualized, umm…whutt. but pointing out something that raises a point is hardly a dig at the author or seoulbeats.

          i come here because i like to argue my point of view, which will be different from yours or whoever…i won’t bother commenting if i agreed with you.

          • Mintmint

            Well yes, I am a regular reader of Seoulbeats and I also read the comments. That’s the point of posting here right? The point of the Seoulbeats site itself? For discussion? I don’t know what else you mean by your introduction, unless you meant it to be condescending sarcasm, which is rather unnecessary.

            Actually I wasn’t hurt at all and I certainly wasn’t throwing claims left and right. I just felt you didn’t have the right attitude when you were addressing the other commenters on this article. When you say, “so smart for everyone to just group everyone…” you insult the intelligence of the readers in this forum, while simultaneously grouping and generalizing EVERYONE here into that category of being stupid.

            “i just expressed my thoughts, made some comments snarlingly. the first one directed at the commenter was mean but come on the girl thought Tonight wasn’t sexualized, umm…whutt. but pointing out something that raises a point is hardly a dig at the author or seoulbeats.”

            Well making comments ”snarlingly” is quite rude and turns off a lot of people who want to make discussion with you. You even admit that you were being mean but excuse your behavior simply because they didn’t agree with you. You can’t expect people to respect YOUR opinion when you don’t respect theirs. No one is even going to want to listen to you “expressing your thoughts” or “arguing your point of view” if you don’t practice basic etiquette. If you keep doing it, pretty soon a lot of people won’t like seeing you come here and will treat you like you’re a troll, or just a mean/rude person incapable of discussing respectfully.

            Realistically, when you want to talk to somebody you don’t initially insult them and then expect them to listen to what you have to say. You can still point out your argument without being rude. You can still have a different viewpoint and you don’t have to agree with everybody. You just have to be sensitive and polite toward others or else people will get tired or frustrated talking to you. This is common courtesy for most non-trolling/serious websites. If you don’t like it, then there are plenty of other fansites out there that talk about Kpop you can join.

  • http://www.michelle-chin.com Michelle Chin

    i guess one can say that infrahumanization (seeing other races as less human) is kinda rampant…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/MN353U5UD2BOFRXS5VPIB4ZYRM Jas

    same thing can be said about western countries.I think its all rooted back to western country’s. are these not the problems were are facing now, how women are being portrayed in the media and how teenage girls are buying into this thought of acting and dressing in this particular way. Go look at those todlar in T-ara shows. Looks at the countless of our mv, most of them are always showing women like that.

    But  i swear to god, you have did several articles like this

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

      I think the point of article was not just to point out how sexualized women are in the Korean media but specifically how white women are potrayed and stereotyped. It’s like how you stated that yes, the western media sexualizes women, but it’s even more so MINORITY women. Saying that women are objectified all over the world does not change the fact that this is how white women are seen in Korea just like how minority women are seen in America, it also doesn’t mean that Korea does not share some of the blame in what they choose to showcase.
       
      Also I don’t think that someone should feel like they can’t talk about subject that they are concerned over even if its been done before. There are several topics about race on seoulbeats however there is only one other article that is about the sexualization of white women in kpop on seoulbeats. There also several topics about the globalization of Korea/Hallyu Wave, several topics on BIGBANG, Shinee, B.A.P etc, several on how kpop companies treat thier idols and trainees, and I’ve never head anyone complain about that or act like the topic is overdone. Why does it seem like people only get annoyed when topics concerning race come up, these things should be discussed just like any other topic, but I think it just makes people uncomfortable and so it would just be easier to just stay away from the subject all together. However for me, the more you discuss them, the more of a better understanding you’ll have of the subject and if you don’t want to discuss/hear about them you don’t have to participate.

      • vbvxgxfgf

        seems like we are going in circles

        same arugments over and over

        race is too senstitive of a topic in my opinion, i am black and i hate when people call koreans racist

        ” korean hate black people”

        seriously enough

        • Mintmint

          It is pretty sad that this happens everywhere… Saying that it is a “natural” human tendency would be the worst cop-out ever, but it does seem like it sometimes because it happens so often. Maybe it’s a product of modern culture and media, and therefore can be changed. I don’t know too much about this subject to delve in further though.  

          To be honest this topic gets me a little miserable sometimes. Objectification, especially through sex, is the worst… To be honest I didn’t really think much about videos like High High or Tonight but now I can’t watch them without having it rubbing me in the wrong way.

          • xNoirX

            Venus of Willendorf is one of the oldest object of art, and it is an objectification of female gender characteristics.  In our century guys all over the world enjoy  pornography over the net.  If it’s so ingrained, then is objectification so bad after all?  There are deep rooted reasons for these things: anthropological and biological reasons. 

            Unfortunately, SB writers are mostly females, and if I am not mistaken, one is an avowed  feminist.  The views presented by SB is, while it is reasoned, not balanced at all.

            In US academia, generally, feminist study department does not have the most cordial relationship with anthropology department.  For one thing, often times they have to fight for fundings from same source.  Another is they look at problems mentioned in the article through two different, conflicting angles.  This results in highly politicized environment, which leads to unproductivity.  I think that’s where your frustration lies.

          • Rp410

            *sigh*

            I don’t have time to give this a full and well-thought out response, and for that I apologise. I would just like to point out that no matter how ‘ingrained’ something is, it does not make it right…perhaps women want to be thought of as human beings rather than just sexual objects? Perhaps we have desires and feelings ourselves as well?

            Let’s talk about other things that are ingrained and so *must be right*: the fear of the ‘other’ and the ‘outsider’ leading to racism and xenophobia, forcibly having sex with a woman because you really, really want to, being violent towards someone else because they have something you want…we are no longer cavemen. We’re a little more evolved than that. Anthropology tells us about basic human nature, but sometimes we have to go beyond our basic natures in order to progress and act in a civilised manner. 

            And yes, I like that my boyfriend finds me sexually attractive and I kind of like it when men flirt with me (IF they do it in a nice, non-intimidating way, mind you), but I also like being appreciated for my thoughts, talents and feelings, and having them listened to. I’m not some sub-human object because I have breasts and a vagina.

          • Mintmint

            @google-683ef29da183a7eeb7e083a8d2f608a8:disqus 

            Thanks for a very clear and thoughtful comment, I definitely couldn’t have responded as well as you did. And I totally agree with everything you’ve said.

            @xNoirX:disqus 

            “In US academia, generally, feminist study department does not have the most cordial relationship with anthropology department. For one thing, often times they have to fight for fundings from same source. Another is they look at problems mentioned in the article through two different, conflicting angles. This results in highly politicized environment, which leads to unproductivity. I think that’s where your frustration lies.”

            How does American academia and the supposed debate between feminists and anthropologists in university departments relate to my comment? In the context of this site and the article it is completely irrelevant.

            It’s not about the “unproductivity” that stems from discussion, if that’s what you mean. And I don’t care if an environment is politicized or not – in fact having multiple perspectives on the situation is useful as long as all members in each party remain open-minded and respectful of each other. Discussion is healthy and at least better than doing nothing and letting issues sweep itself under the rug.

            “If it’s so ingrained, then is objectification so bad after all?”

            Well, if you’re a male who faces significantly less objectification than a woman would, then I guess it wouldn’t be so bad for you. Also, there’s nothing wrong with being a feminist and believing that women are as worthy or as equal to men. The reason why there isn’t a male equivalent for feminists is because it would be unnecessary – historically men have faced much lesser amounts of discrimination than women (based on gender). Frankly, if it were the other way around, I would protest and feel frustrated too if men were being objectified instead of women. I believe in the humanization of all people regardless of gender, race, etc. Believing that it’s “not bad” to objectify or discriminate women would be like thinking it’s perfectly fine to cheat on someone because humans are technically not a wholly monogamous species. Or it’s like believing in social Darwinism and thinking that white people are biologically superior to black people, which is something that is also “ingrained” into us through social evolution, and that is just a bunch of bullshit in itself.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

          Your not breaking anything to me because I never said it wasn’t a global issue or that Korea was the only place that showed white women in this way, In fact I agreed that sexualization happens everywhere. Im saying that this article is more about the stereotypes of other races in the media rather than sexualization per se, and that just because it is a global thing does not mean that Korea does not own some of the blame or that we can’t specifically talk about what goes on in the Korean Music Industy.

          • sadasdasdas

            the piont is, why arent we looking at the bigger picture

            the source of all this

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

            We can, be to me its got to be related back to what the article is talking about or else it just makes it seem like your derailing the argument or trying to downplay what’s happening in Korea. I don’t feel like Korea cannot take some of blame in this as well, even if they aren’t the main problem. Which is it seems like I have to keep repeating myself.

            Also the West is not always the blame for countries problems concerning women, there are many factors that go into why women are treated the way they are in society. Some other factors could be the countries overall value systems and what they preceive as normal, religious beliefs, and your overall environment. Like, for example how in certain parts of Africa, women are forced to get clitorectomy, I think that has more to do with their culture values than with western media’s influence making women into sexual objects, same with how women are treated in Muslin countries, or how in China they’d rather have boy over girl baby. Or even how much Koreans think a women should weigh, wanting a girl to be around 90 pounds to me is not a western influence more than it is a countries culture and who makes up that culture, I mean the west of course vaules skinny women as well but its usually thought of as sexy when women has curves probably the average weight of around 120-130 in American media, maybe not the models, but the actresses and singers. It shows that women are thought of less around the world, but I don’t think that’s necessarily all because of western influence. I mean the west has its problems when it comes to sexualizing women but I really do think that other countries would have this problem even without western influence. Also, if we are talking about on a global scale its not just white people who are potrayed like this in a lot of places, but any women who is minority in the country could be thought of as exotic and looked at in a way that is different than the majority. So I’m agreeing that yes women are sexualized everywhere and it should be talked about, but what’s happening in the Korea media should not be dimissed just because ”Everyone does it”.      

          • http://twitter.com/Les_Diabolique AZ

            Because this site focus on Korea so not to say that the bigger picture isn’t important, but it does not apply here. Here we are focused on a specific culture and their views on others.

  • Black_Plague

    Down with patriarchy!!!!!!!

  • goldengluvsk2

    i feel my head spinning with topics like this one… sometimes i think the mere point of having a foreigner -most of the time caucasian- represents some kind of bad habit/wrongdoing… I watched this drama and the male teacher was in a relationship with a student was caucasian… and  it was even implied that they had sexual intercourse… so he was the devil that “seduced” the student… thats the same way caucasian women are protrayed as easy… women in general are objectified… worldwide… and men are objectified too… the fact that Korea treats their women when they find a foreign boyfriend labeling them “gold diggers” is not right either cuz they act like the k-women belong to them when theyre old enough to do what they want… people should just protect and respect women… no matter if theyre from korean, hispanic, black,caucasian,etc. they should respect all of them not to think theyre less or more valuable than one another…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

    I’ve already said what I needed to say on this in the last article topic concerning this issue. But what I feel is that the majority of the times these kpop idols want to use white women for international appeal but also in a way that they think is safe. It’s safe for Kpop idols to use white women (and only white women because who knows how the public would react to any other foreigner) in a sexualized way because its not shown as real relationship. Interacial dating is still taboo in Korea,so presenting these women in way were it’s suggesting that it’s merely fun and games, not girlfriend/marriage material, theres nothing to worry about. It’s like they are saying ”Of course we kpop idols will marry a Korean women to keep the blood pure, the white girls are for partying”. Korean girls can’t even have a foreign male in their video, I mean BIGBANG has used white girls for at least five of their MV’s, where is the white guys or foriegn men in 2ne1′s videos? They are playing it safe in my opinion. Now of course this is not the case in every video presenting white women, but its done too often.

    • Mintmint

      In Korea white males are seen as “evil foreigners” who trick innocent, naive Korean women into marrying them, losing their virginity (assuming all Korean women are virgins until marriage - AS IF!), corrupting them with Western values, etc.

      I love Big Bang but their treatment of white girls in their MVs is seriously fucked up and I’m frankly tired of it. It could be YG wanting to appeal to the Korean audience, because easy/slutty white girls is what they understand, but how about challenging that notion and “breaking the stereotype”?

      On a side note, to be honest I felt a little weird about the inclusion of an all-black band in SNSD’s Twinkle MV, especially considering the racist comments that Taeyeon/SM artists have made in the past. It reminded me a lot of Big Bang’s live band. It’s like these Kpop companies are competing with each other to look more “global” but don’t know what the hell being “global” actually means.

      In relation to Michelle Lee’s elimination from Kpop Star, JYP said something along the lines of, “We share with other people our music and dramas, and in return we also should be interested in THEIR music and dramas.” And I found that to be perhaps the most intelligent view on the Hallyu wave I’ve heard to date. It’s not about giving us your culture and then turning your back on ours, it has to be a mutual relationship. Why should I pay to see your concerts and buy your albums if you think that anyone who is not Korean/East Asian is not worthy of respect?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

        I agree with everything you said. Adding to that, I think SM is just using YG’s ideas, I mean they did a global event after YG did a global event. I feel like YG was genuine when he included an all black band on YG ON AIR, mostly because the band has been performing with BIGBANG even before the YG ON AIR videos were released, and  they are in BIGBANG’s global tour. Also I read a fan account who was able to attend YG ON AIR filming and she said that the BIGBANG memebers were always talking to the black foreigners when they had the chance to do so, mostly GD apparently. Also if you watched U&I you can tell that the BIGBANG memebers seems to like having them around and make an effort to communicate with them even though their english is not fluent. I honestly think that even though it may not come out well sometimes, that YG and its artist usually have good intentions when including foreigners. SM however, I think it is just an attempt to appeal more global and following YG examples to do so…I honestly have a very negative view of the company so excuse me if i sound bias but that’s I feel. I didn’t even know about SNSD having an black band til now because I don’t follow them at all, but I feel like you can tell its just a copied move. And maybe its just me but I can’t even picture SNSD trying to be friends or trying to communicate with their black band or that SM hired them because they personally wanted them there like I feel that YG has because if you follow YG artist like I do he has always had black people working for him behind the scenes for a very long time now, and I’m not just talking about celebrities.

      • http://twitter.com/uga12345 neel padhiar

        i feel what you said what really intelligent and yeah it was weird but we all know korean media has a weird view with darker skin since most koreans are paler but it shows that they are using the best for mv (twinkle snsd)not just asians as it probably was before and it means that if there were more non asians or at least korean or chinese in the industry (with smart advertising not like chocolat where they were making it sound like being 1/2 american was better that 100% korean)it would make entering the US market easier (completely irrelavent but true)

      • jesuis2

        Yeah, that’s why Koreans line up to watch Hollywood films (much less watch American TV shows – some of which were more popular in Korea than they were in the US), not to mention all the WM faces/models that appear in commercials/ad campaigns, often with major Korean female stars.

        Do we ever see the reverse in the US?  Heck, we can’t even get young, attractive Asian-American couples.

    • dodo18

      actualy bigbang sexualize even koreans girls , watch number one , oh yeah japanese version . it’s koreans models . the thing is mostly in gd & top mv they do hip hop , and like most hip hop video they sexualise women. at this point nowaday i blame all hip hop artist. as a woman who like to listen to hip hop music , sometime watching hip hop videos it’s just a turn off

      • Mintmint

        You’ve got a point. Also in Seungri’s Strong Baby his main love/sexual interest was a Korean girl. Last Farewell also had a Korean girl dancing sexily as well.

        With Oh Yeah though, I don’t think any of the Korean models were rubbing up on GD/TOP, they were just dancing and having fun in formal party dresses with a swanky pool and apartment. And the other Asian models were being driven around in fancy cars and yachts like a rich guy would treat his girlfriend out on a nice date. Context is important. Dancing suggestively wouldn’t fit in the context of the song anyway, and I think that is the main issue. I just find it strange that they didn’t use any Korean girls to do the dirty/sweaty “sexual” scenes in a club/party atmosphere with GD/TOP, getting drunk, crazy and acting all “sinful” like some people would call it lol. But when they have a “classy” atmosphere like Oh Yeah, they use Asian models…

        • http://twitter.com/lily_of_west CLover/Infiknight

          But you do realize that “High High” was shot during an actual party. People there were actually drunk. Well most of them. In the other Big Bang MVs where Caucasian women were in, non of them acted slutty. In “Knockout” there were Caucasian models dressed like models doing nothing, I never thought lying on a guy’s lap is considered slutty. “Beautiful hangover” is the same. GD acted as tho he was gonna kiss her, she was fully dressed, she wasn’t all over them, she wasn’t grinding on the floor dressed in a skimpy was, showing off her ass or anything. And also in “High High” you can see African-American guy, a Caucasian guy drunk as fuck, Asian girls drunk, I think I even remember a Filipino girl there. It was an actual party, people were chill. The Caucasian girls (models) weren’t acting slutty they were actually just chillin’ dancing that’s all. I’m not justifying anything but just because they used a few Caucasian girls in their MVs, doesn’t mean they degrade them in any was.

          However, YG has used Caucasian women in a degrading way in YG Family “Fly Gentlemen” I will never to this day  forget Danny on that sofa with that, God forgive me, prostitute-like girl, I cringe every time I watch that MV. I do not condole using girls like that in MVs. But as far as Big Bang goes I do not think they used those Caucasian girls in a degrading way at all. 

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

            In “High High” the Caucasion women were wearing more revealing clothes, mostly due to the fact that the Korean Models refused to wear them apparently, and also the camera seems to focuse on the white girls which shows them touching and flirting with GD and TOP throughout the entire video, “Beautiful Hangover” the storyline was supposedly that the girl was cheating on Taeyang with G-dragon. Also my point was also that the majority of the time Caucasion women are presented in a way were it’s seen as “just for fun” , “Knock Out” is perfect example of that, the song is just for fun and the white girl was for show. It may not be degrading perse but its showing foreigners in a way that is acceptable to the Korean audience.

          • http://twitter.com/lily_of_west CLover/Infiknight

            I didn’t see anything on those girls that I myself wouldn’t wear in the club. Nothing too revealing or out of the ordinary. If anything toned down. Go to any club in Europe or the States and you’ll see more I promise. The camera did focus more on the models/actresses (who were Caucasian) because they were payed, the rest of the people in there were there for the party. I didn’t see any grinding, private-parts touching, nobody’s ass was showing. Both GD and Top hugged some of those girls and they hugged them back, that’s again is in no way degrading or seen as acting promiscuous.

            So what if the girl in the “Beautiful Hangover” was cheating on YB. Again, how is that promiscuous in “Look only at me” the Asian actress is portrayed as tho she cheated on him with 4 Big Bang members. That’s even worse. It’s MV storyline, nothing more nothing less. I don’t see anyone complaining about the guy in Hyori’s “10 Minutes”. An African-American guy playing basketball, the biggest stereotype ever. Does that make her racist. No! Those are all freaking MVs, there to give a short story, not to say “Hey we’re racist/shovinistic etc.

            Is it true that Koreans see westerners as people who are more open with their sexuality? Yes! Is it true that westerners see Asians as either anime characters, docile sweet girls, or experts in martial arts? Yes?

            No one says all Koreans have this perception of Caucasian people (girls), just like not all westerners don’t see Asian girls as these docile school girls dressed as anime characters and there to please creepy old perverts who have nothing better to do. It’s stereotypes, there will always be people who accept them and those who don’t. I do agree that Koreans have some issues in their perception of other races, but so does the rest of the world. We can’t exactly call them out on the same shit the rest of the world does now can we?

            As far as these kpop MVs go, until I see a Caucasian girl, half naked, her ass in someone’s lap, giving someone a lap dance, or being piss ass drunk on the floor, I will not agree with the idea that they are degraded in any way in these MVs. If they play cheating girlfriends (please Asian girls play cheating girlfriends in kpop MVs all the time), or are just dancing in a party atmosphere I will not consider it degrading. And I’m a Caucasian girl.

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

            In “High High” GD and Top have a girl on each arm, that screams playboy to me, but I do agree with some of your points like in “Oh yeah” they do seem to be depicting even the Korean women in that way, but this article isn’t just about BIGBANG, I also used the “Boy Over Flower’s” example which was when they went on vacation in the show, the white girls were in bikini’s while the Korean girls were fully dressed, I do feel that there is stereotype of white girls being easier than Korean girls. Also, I highly doubt you’ll see anyone women lap dancing, half-naked etc in the Korean media for a while since Korea is still very conservative, Im sure the video would get banned if anyone attempted that. My main point wasn’t that they are necessarily degrading white women, but more so that white women are used in a safe way. I’ll use another example but with Jay Park’s “Know Your Name” the black girl was in the dance version, but the Korean girl was in the acoustic version the one that was depicted as Jay Park’s grilfriend rather than just a dance partner, the black girl was used in a more safe way.

            Now, I do think you have some good points and you don’t have agree with me that’s fine, I think discussions are more about understanding rather than arguing. However, I’ll have to disagree with your last few paragraphs. Hyori may not have gotten trouble for showing a black guy playing basketball in her MV “10 mintues” but she has received flock in the past for the way she has presented black men. Her video “Any Motion” showed black men robbing from a store and fans were upset and offended by it, and MV’s such as that one which are using clear stereotypes do need to be called out on it. MV’s are not just short stories, they are part of the media which shapes people minds and thoughts. If they were no big deal I would not have to worry about as black person going to Korea and having people come up to me speaking slang thinking that’s how all black people talk or not being able to find a job because parents think there children would be scared of black people, or even in the states how people think all black women are loud, ghetto etc, this is all partly due to how black people are potrayed in the media, it affects how people see and treat you. Saying that it’s just a music video is being naive and a bit dimissing of what other people go through/experience because of the media’s influence.
             
            Secondly, just because America does not show Asians in a good light does not mean that its okay for Korea to do the same. I absolutely do believe that we should call them out on the shit that they do. When I see something I precieve as wrong I’ll call it out no matter where it’s coming from because I believe in calling it out as I see it and that everyone should be held accountable for what they choose to put out. Telling someone that they shouldn’t be offended by what is put out in Asia because America does it, would be like telling an Asian person who doesn’t like how they are potrayed in America media that they have no right to feel that way because Asia does it too. It just a never ending argument of pointing fingers, pushing the blame on someone else instead of looking at the fault within themselves, it get us no where, it encourages no change.  

            No one in this article is claiming that Koreans are racist because of this or that all Koreans think the same. Although prejudice views and stereotyping ultimately lead to greater problems such as racism. Most people who end doing/saying stereotypical things usually don’t mean it but its all about preception, thats what matters the most rather the person meant it or not it doesn’t change the affect.

          • http://twitter.com/lily_of_west CLover/Infiknight

             But that’s exactly what I was talking about; stereotypes and people’s perceptions. Don’t get me wrong I’m not defending that in any way because I know Koreans have fucked up notions about westerners, but it’s a two-way road. The same goes for westerners. I didn’t say I wasn’t pissed off with the black face and stuff, but I hardly consider MVs as something offenssive, like I said, Korean protray of Caucassian women is better than say American potray of Asian women.

            And by the way I spoke about Big Bang because they’re the only group from the ones listed in the article that I know as the back of my plam (their music and MVs that is). And I’m not trying to fight or anything , I appreciate your opinion and actually agree with a good part of it, I just stated my honest opinion that’s all.

          • Mintmint

            You make some very interesting points, thanks for a great discussion. ^^

            Personally, what I noticed in Knock Out, was that when the white model was laying across the lap of GD, he was caressing her neck like she was a pet and rapping lyrics to something about a (dating?) scandal. I don’t know, I found that scene to be very awkward.

            I’d like to contrast these videos with Baby Goodnight. Another commenter posted about Baby Goodnight being the “most sexualized MV” using Asian girls. Which I do agree, it is very sexual. But the “kind” of sexuality presented looks very different than the kind you would see with a non-Asian girl in most of the other MVs. For instance, both TOP and GD are acting very gentlemanly and romantic. TOP treats his girl to wining and dining, and even drops the supposed “engagement ring” in her glass. He leans in to kiss her – but! – stops at the last minute to remain respectful to her and instead wipes something off her mouth with his finger. When the girl falls asleep on the lap of GD, he pulls his jacket over her shoulders. When TOP goes to visit his girlfriend sleeping in the bedroom, he just stops RIGHT outside of the door and thinks better of it and walks away. He DREAMS/fantasizes of sleeping with her (as evidenced by the snake crawling on her body lol) but he respects his boundaries.  
            I just haven’t seen the same treatment/respect of love interests in the MVs like Asian love interests. I think it is VERY subtle, but I do believe it is there, and deliberate to boot. For some reason, white girls (or any non-Asian foreigner) are usually just used for sex, or have some drama that goes wrong, or is “shared” between the members (usually suggesting promiscuity in the storylines). So, while maybe the MVs include BOTH Asian and non-Asian girls dancing/acting sexy, USUALLY the non-Asian girls are the ones that are being touched/dragged around by the rappers/singers. The non-Asians are usually girls that are viewed as “dispensible” or not taken seriously as a real love interest.

            However, I’m not calling Big Bang racists or anything. I know for Taeyang’s Only Look At Me, he used a Korean girl who cheated on him with ALL of his band members. So while this is a problem, I guess one of my wishes is to see a non-Asian/white actress treated like a princess for once in one of their MVs, rather than a toy that they play/fondle with.

          • sabcan

            the original cut of the baby goodnight mv was rated 19+ as per the director but they toned it down to avoid a ban given that mogef and the tv channels were banning everything gd&top left and right.

            nor do i think it’s most sexualized mv with korean women. there’s plenty of girl groups or solo singers with very sexualized mvs.

            i think your overall point is correct but it’s simply the idea of the “other” that we see in every country, in every form of pop culture. in america, the “other” is non-white, in korea, it’s non-asian. i understand that this is a kpop site, but by narrowing down the discussion, you miss a ton of context.
            i find it interesting you brought up bigbang (though i feel you’re reaching with most of them) but this is the one thing that used to set bigbang apart from other boy groups when they started. 1. there were women in their mvs (and on their concert stages). 2. and these women danced with/touched bigbang. this was very deliberate because they were marketed as (and treated by the public as) regular guys and not the traditional untouchable, pure oppars who generally populated boybands. and as another poster pointed out, there’s a lot of sexualization of korean women in bigbang mvs. and mvs where the korean “girlfriends” are not presented as pure or virginal like my girl, last farewell, how gee etc.

            and everyone’s interpretation is different. can’t an argument be made that in mvs like blue and bad boy, they’re not treating the girls like toys. in blue, she’s this perfect memory they cannot get over and in bad boy, they’re the good girls (according to the lyrics), while bigbang are the bad boys. race and gender don’t always intersect as neatly as your article makes it out to be.

          • Mintmint

            Well I did hear about the 19+ version but I guess since it was never aired we can’t really use that for analysis right? Anyway I hope they release it someday because the director is very talented and I personally enjoyed the MV.

            To be honest we bring up Big Bang’s MVs for examples since most of the comments in this article is about Big Bang I guess. Lol. It doesn’t mean that I’m attacking them, but there’s nothing wrong with some analytical criticism. They are not the ONLY ones nor the worst out there in terms of “sexualization of women” in Kpop.

            Hmm, since I wasn’t really into Kpop before recently, I can’t say much about their rookie videos and use of women in them. But thanks for the interesting point, I’ll look further into that. And I do agree with you if you read the last paragraph of my comment and also parts of the others I have posted on here, that BB also uses Korean girls that are not the typical pure women in their MVs.

            I honestly don’t have anything against Big Bang, in fact I think they are probably way ahead of their Kpop peers, but like you said, it’s a problem all over the world and there’s always room for improvement. I think some Korean rappers believe it’s necessary to include sexy women in their MVs because they do hip hop, so it could be the the “genre” itself that encourages this behavior. I do agree that race and gender issues are nebulous and hard to separate into black and white, but it does make for interesting discussion at the very least. ^^

          • dodo18

            i think you are new to bigbang but you should check their old videos or solos concert. 
            for example : number one, how gee, gara gara go, strong baby, my girl, she can’t get enough. 
            all those songs they used koreans womens and in a sexual way. 
            bigbang was the first group to start to use white women int their mv and i think it was a way to reach also their international fans.
            the way bigbang use white model is the same way bigbang they  use their koreans model.
            if you watch gd , taeyang solo concert you see them having a bed scene and those women are koreans by the way. 
            the fact is bigbang is probably one of the kpop group that have mv like western artists and their concert are like those from western artist.
            bigbang not singing how noona is beautiful , idolizing women , is somewhat what attracted theit fans in the first place. bigbang lyrics for  not always beautiful perfect.no’t portray women as some perfect virgins like most kpop songs is what attracted most of us. bigbang sing about reality in love and i belive also sex is reality in love story so why not sing about it ?all those things are what make bigbang charms . 
            while as a woman i don’t agree with the fact women being portrayed as some sexual objects , but this whole bigbang sexualise white women is just ridiculous . bigbang have mv that portray both asians and white girls in sexual way like they have mv that show both asian & white girls as love interest. 
            i don’t think blue or bad boy , the girls ware treated as sluts.

          • http://twitter.com/lily_of_west CLover/Infiknight

             I do agree with you that those Caucasian women look awkward within some of the scenes in MVs. But I mean a girl acting like she cheats on a guy is not degrading sexually on any way. It’s an MV most of Big Bang songs are about heartbreak, lover’s quarrels, someone cheating on someone. Just like guys in MVs by girl groups are also portrayed as cheating boyfriends who break their hearts with their best friend or other girls. I don’t see how that’s degrading to women on any level.  I don’t see the plot line of a girl cheating on a guy as that girl acting slutty or promiscuous (be it Asian or non-Asian girl).

            But still, I just don’t see how Caucasian models/actresses are treated in a degrading manner in Big Bang MVs (I’m talking about Big Bang here because they’re my bias group and I know their every MV by heart). And like I said perfect example for a degrading female Caucasian role would be YG Family’s “Fly Gentlemen” MV, not Big Bang’s MVs. And not just even Caucasian, there were Asian girls in that MV that acted in a slutty (more ‘Americanized-hip hop-video-booty shaking type’).

            If anything we shouldn’t look at this as a race thing. It’s more of a sexist thing. Girls are there to look pretty, sexy, act slutty etc. I don’t see anyone complaining when they see Asian girls in 50 cent’s (he’s just one example) videos working the pole, grinding on the floor, prancing in a G-string etc. If anything Asians and by this I mean Kpop groups which use Caucasian girls in their MVs are more respectful of them than Western singers/groups are of Asian girls.

          • Mintmint

            “But I mean a girl acting like she cheats on a guy is not degrading sexually on any way.”

            Hmm, while I think this is true for someone with an American/western perspective, I think it’s a little different in Korea. Girl groups can freely sing about cheating boyfriends who are mansluts (lol), but it’s the opposite for boy groups because women who cheat are not looked at very kindly. It may not look like it’s degrading to you (or me) who comes from a culture where cheating on both ends is considered wrong. But trying to look at it from a Korean perspective, it is different. Korean women who practice adultery, instead of being the virtuous, pure and faithful wives like they should be, are looked at in a condescending light. While on the other hand men have a significantly easier time getting off scott-free if they are the cheaters. Unfair? Yes. But Korea is still a very unfair place in regards to gender equality. So while it may not look like women are being “slutty or promiscuous” in the definition of what an American would define as slutty/promiscuous, the definition of sexualization and degradation is different in Korea, and it is VERY very subtle, sometimes impossible to track if you are not familiar with Korean culture. The difficulty in criticizing it from an American point of view is that we are operating on totally different cultural viewpoints here. It really helps to step into “their” shoes so to speak, to understand them.

            Korea still is a very patriarchal society, and women are expected to put up with their boyfriends’/husbands’ crap (yes, that includes cheating) while remaining faithful. I kid you not, I read several articles from American expats who confirm that it is an EXTREMELY common practice for men in the workplace to go to prostitutes with their buddies as a way of a “bonding experience.” Wives are expected to just put up with it because it’s “necessary to survive in the workplace” which is probably just a bunch of bullshit that their husbands feed them to keep doing this kind of stuff. Other times women wait until the kids are gone and then they divorce, or they just become apathetic and indifferent to it, which is probably even worse.

            As to the Big Bang MVs, well I guess I’ve already said what I needed to say about using Caucasian women in their music. If I repeat anymore I guess I’ll just be circling around the same argument over and over. Lol. But I do respect your opinion and where you’re coming from.

            As to your last point, well what Koreans do and Americans do are both wrong in terms of sexualizing others to objects. Even if you say that Koreans are more “respectful”, it is still sexualization in its core form. Which essentially makes it wrong and worthy of criticism. I mean, if someone came up to me saying “Go back to your country” because I’m Asian, versus refusing me a job because I’m Asian… Well the latter is obviously more serious, but that doesn’t mean that the former means nothing at all, it is still hurtful and/or the wrong mentality to have. So just because Americans are “way worse” so to speak, doesn’t mean that Koreans should be left off the hook. In fact, I think that Korean sexualization of women may be even worse than Americans because at least Americans will be willing to talk about it and it’s a recognized problem. There is no strong or prominent movement of feminism in Korea and it’s a problem that is repeatedly ignored by the media. Which could be much more dangerous when you think about it, because if no one talks about it, nothing will change.

        • dodo18

          just a question have you watched number one , trust me girls were rubbing on bigbang members and they were koreans it was inn a club. saying they only sexualise wetsern girls it’s not true. they sexualise asian, western. but no women should be sexualised no matter her race . but saying they only do it with western girls it’s not true

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

            I think that its mostly about stereotyping over anything else. I mean yes korean girls are sexualized as well in Korean entertainment industry, but those are not the only roles they are given. However the majority of roles given to Caucasion women are usually stereotypical, that white girls are easier than Korean girls stereotype. Kinda like how in “Boy Over Flower”s the white girls were in bikinis and korean girls were fully dressed when they went on vacation. There is on obvious stereotypical view of Caucasion women in the korean media.  

    • xNoirX

      Mama Mia MV has Narsha kissing a white guy. (Actually one of the best kissing scene in all k-entertainment.)  Twinkle MV has at least one black guy.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/MMRQEZEPSNJ26LJ7XJNDDM5NCI JasmineA

        I knew about the Mama Mia MV but not SNSD. When I say these things I’m not saying that it never happens, I’m speaking about the majority of the time. Their obviously more foreign women presented in Kpop than the other way around.

  • sadasdasdas

    Better question would be, why dont white people know better

    • theonetwo

      its not just white people.  every type of girl, no matter what race has been shown in that light..  some girls simply dont care because its either a paycheck or a way to get your name out there.  they arent looking at the bigger ramification and i cant blame then because its a big issue.

  • Jennyhime

    In the west we sexualize Asian women and obviously now in Korea there is a thing for western specifically Caucasian women. 
    Western men are seen as bad, corrupt and who steal their women while western women are seen as more promiscuous and having a serious relationship would be very bad according to some very old fashioned people.
    I think unfortunately the westerns woman is seen as something of a object for many Korean idols, like a trophy of some sort and I don’t think it’s likely that this trend will end any time soon. The women in the videos all fit one type of female ideal.
    Unfortunately many Russian women work in the sex trade, in Japan many end up as hostesses with fake marriages to keep them in the country. 

  • xnopex

    hey, the patriarchy is a shit system for women of all ethnicities. who knew! hahaha

  • dgi

     ”stereotype that westerners (in this case Caucasians) are naturally promiscuous and sexual in nature. ”I agree with the author in that, but I think this doesn’t happen just with kpop and caucasians, the caucasians objectified latin wonen the same way koreand objectify caucasians. Its a big problem but it’s not something exclusive to kpop but all societies 

  • Chotto1

    Asian women are portrayed as Dragon Ladies or Submissive Anime-caricatures in the West.

    Black women are portrayed as angry overly sexual Jezebels in the West and Asia.

    Latin women are portrayed as sassy and sexual.

    White women are idolized but also portrayed as promiscuous hoes that will let you do anything the world over.

    Bottom line: The world hates women.

    • black_rose45000

      Ikr? I was thinking the same. So women, on top of being discriminated/thought-as-inferior, abused, raped, objectified, and god knows what else, they are also hypersexual beings prone to slutty, degrading behaviour. Interesting.

  • Eliza17

    Ok question, if caucasian women are seen as more sexualized and promiscuous, does that mean that when korean women (and other asian women) get plastic surgery to look more caucasian, they are trying to be seen as such?

    • Renie_one

      I think there is a whole different ideology on that which stems from colonialism but to some they might think that way. Some see Caucasians as sexier but for the majority who do get plastic surgery to look more Caucasian I don’t think it’s necessarily to be sexier but more so they think it makes them more aesthetically appealing and beautiful. 

    • Mintmint

      I think it’s a very strange irony here. Most Koreans like having “big” eyes that is characteristic of Western women but don’t see Caucasian women as worthy of respect. Same thing like with idols copying black music but don’t respect African Americans or see them inferior to Koreans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alexis-Testman/100000892581132 Alexis Testman

    There is a lot of holes in this article and a one sided focus but its a good topic. The irony I was looking at pics of the Echo Awards in Berlin, Germany. I wanted to look up  my favorite artists Marilyn Manson and Rammstein joint stage.  I was just fangirling over the whole thing.

    But Katy Perry who also perform and her outfit, despite not showing any skin showed the shape of her lady lumps and appeared nude at first. This is something many white female pop stars are doing lately and selling you lost of sex with catchy pop music. The same with black female pop/hip hop stars like Rihanna and Beyonce.

    Since we live in the technology age where anyone can watch, view, blog and comment. The idealism that White European women are easy comes from the western culture and is continually being showed today.  Do I blame Korean men to think little of these women? NO. Do I agree? NO. But two wrongs from both culture doesn’t develop a better respect.

    Until western culture tone down the sexual charge image of the white women then Korea isn’t going to stop either. When I read this article its the same arguments black women have towards hip hop when it started to become more sexual charge in the mid 80′s and early 90′s. How it sexualize black women although now racial equal and still degrading. Yet white heavy metal bands did the same thing?

    Many have argue that the west does the same to Asian women as being submissive docile hyper sexual little women who can be control by white men.

    Same about Latino women in the west being hyper sexual, etc etc etc…

    Honestly its becoming an eye for an eye situation. In the end everyone is blind and show their hidden prejudice.

    Each culture is guilty of false sexual diaspora its just Koreans chose the white female and male. While the west chose anyone who is non-white.

    Also to those black female k-pop fans. Lets not complain of us not being in their music videos. Its Koreans have a hard time viewing whites in a repsective manor than its no different with us. Many blogs that I read from black women American/Africa/European living in Asia are degree holders or migrant wives. They do not prostitute themselves for easy cash.

    So the stereotypes black women are hyper sexual image created by hip hop and the western culture of the Jezebel  that states back as far as slavery days. Doesn’t hold to strongly in the Asian nations. Its the complete opposite and Asian men and women are well aware.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alexis-Testman/100000892581132 Alexis Testman

    I would also like to add Rammstein who are still the 6 original members grew up behind the iron wall in East Germany. In their video “Mein land” show a variety of women included black, white and Asian.

    They come from Europe in a culture environment that was deprived of diversity and individuality. Similar to Korean pop stars and native culture yet they can appreciate women of different skin tones, who speak in different tongues and different sizes.

    I love this group because they are truly open and do not pretend and show prejudice becomes a choice to act upon do not blame your culture.

  • http://twitter.com/uga12345 neel padhiar

    umm weird i agree it’s wrong especially what happened to martina but u hav to admit america is where the whole sex b4 marriage stuff started where they need to have that conversation of why its bad so thats where the generaliztion comes from and it’s spread to most of the world as a entertainment thing but it’s not just caucasians its every race theres a certain population that is like that where guys are interested in certain things and girls are very sexual but the thing is guys and girls cant have switched  “roles” but here teenagers in america would fine that just normal so i find this article a bit biased but i do admit it’s true for all women and men  in every culture… nowadays :(

  • yinyue

    cringing at that f.cuz teaser….ew i only knew them as jiggy jiggy cute an bubbly!

  • iamkaebee

    pssh join the club.

  • jesuis2

    There have been plenty of Asian women in American music videos playing the “sex kitten” theme, not to mention films and TV shows (while Asian males are emasculated).

    Otoh, while yes, there are caucasian women in Korean music videos, there have also been caucasian men as well.

    And major Korean female celebs – from Shin Min-ah to Jeon Ji hyun to Hyori, etc. have done commericals/ad campaigns where they have been paired w/ a WM model (heck, we don’t even see a young attractive Asian American couples in commercials/advertising in the US, much less a hot AM/WF pairing).

  • JolieMelodie

    Truth of the matter is, KPOP objectifies WOMEN. What do you think AfterSchool is? Sistar? SNSD? Wondergirls? Truth is in this world the most sexualized women are asians, blacks and then latinas and whites (indian and arab women for instance are not, but are treated like trash and devalued for millions of them). I think anywhere it is done it’s wrong, damaging and dangerous. Still, white women are put on a pedestal throughout the world paradoxally. I haven’t seen anybody coming to the defense of asian, black or latina women as fast as society seems to do for white girls. They were the first to be granted equal rights in the western world. They’ve been in Kpop for less than 5 or 6 years and there’s already an uproar, other women have been trashed for decades, especially in the west and nobody cares to “bring awareness”. It seems to me that white girls have the best situation in this horrible position women are in in this world, fact remains though that the world has never valued women (even to the point that it causes women to hate themselves and each other), nothing new under the sun.

    • Talissa Trieste

      I’m a half-white female from New Zealand and that is definitely not what I learned in school. I don’t know where you obtained your secondary education, but white women were not granted equal rights because of mere white privilege. Western women enjoy these rights thanks to the well documented work of this woman; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Sheppard (and other admirable people involved in the women’s suffrage movement).
      In my country, women of ALL races are afforded the same basic human rights and privileges.Until the late 19th century, Western women were treated just as poorly by society. Sexual objectification is not a racial issue, it is a legitimate concern for all women, everywhere regardless of race. White women are not put on a pedestal, I believe you are experiencing what is known as an inferiority complex.
      If you feel that women in your country are mistreated and it needs to change, then do something about it. Don’t whinge about how other women live under better conditions because of the colour of their skin (racist much?).
      And if you are not white, how on earth would you know what difficulties every single white women faces? Talk about broad-sweeping statements and generalisations.
      (In case you feel the need to attack my opinion based on the fact that I happen to be part white; I am also 1/2 indigenous). 

      • JolieMelodie

         Talissa,

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000479903207 Phi Golden Ratio

          I applaud you. A well-welcomed hand for you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003152273407 Sabrine Hansen

    I’m half white half arab. I have porselain white skin and an arab body figure. I don’t get treated like trash when I walk around with a hijab (occasionally i do so when my mom invites her family over) and no one seems to care about it. So does my cousin who looks like those stereotypish arabs.
    From personal experiences by visiting Marocco to live with my family down there for 3 months and living in Norway.. I realized that it’s a cultural thing. It’s tradition in Marocco for women to be very private and a “housewife” as doing all the “women-work” around in the household.
    Here in Norway, both women and men work full time. Women here are more “untraditional” and do what usually is reffered to “work for men”.
    So my point is: It’s cultural thing. No need to argue about it. The media made people think like that about women and men. As well as pitbulls, dobermanns, rottweilers and so on being dangerous dogs. It’s up to each individual to act beyond what’s said in the media. Stop talking and take act yourself.
    PS: I’m actually very active in these type of discussions. There is this local newspaper where I live, and I make an appointment with the workers there where I talk about this spesific topic and racism etc.Why not fight media with media? 

  • lemonoide

    whitu piggu

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nate-Broadus/100003245734823 Nate Broadus

    You know why I definitively believe K-pop will NEVER crack the US market?

    Korea doesn’t understand the west. 

    They have a vague notion of its cultures, its customs, and its eccentricities, but they take the notions as absolute fact. Because of this, you get K-pop artists who equate hip hop with wearing gang colors without a clue about the real significance. You get musical acts that think all people in the west care about is money, parties, and bling. You get a culture that thinks objectification of promiscuous women applies to every single female in existence that isn’t Korean. 

    There are promiscuous women in America — but there are also non-promiscuous women, and plenty of them. That is what sexual freedom is about; it’s not a rule that determines all women SHOULD be sexually open — just that they have the option to be if it fits their needs and personality. 

    Choice, my friend. Choice. That is the name of the game.

    K-pop just buys too much into stereotypes, sadly. 

    • JolieMelodie

      I think they apply their korean touch in hiphop pop rnb etc…you have to remember that they try to appeal to the korean market first, then the rest of East Asia, then the rest of other people. The standards are completely different. The public’s expectations too.

      They understand the west (you’d be surprised the number of korean artists who work with americans on american projects behind the scenes), but their major market is in Asia (let’s not even count the number of potential consumers), this is why they will not completely change cause they could risk alienating their main fanbase imo. Even when they try to break it in a US they have to take into account their asian fanbase (biggest one by far). Kpop will have to stop being “kpop” as we know it to break in the US.

      And you know, the west also buys into Asian stereotypes, I have yet to see a great diversity of asian women and men’s images in american or european media. Both sides have their flaws I guess. :)

  • Erisadesu

    I totally believe that some countries are in need of a sexual revolution. Including mine.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/2J45Z3Q252HPNDHDY5UJ4J7VJY Yoda

    It cracks me up how we as people of the world must rationalize,judge,make up excuses and ponder what is the way or the norm. I am a 53yr SWM from the U.S.A. My first wife is Korean. I never remarried because I figure what’s the point. I, to this day still love my ex. We have a beautiful daughter together. All women are sex as sexual or in a sexual nature. Any male who looks at a female,regardless of nationality does not not look at her mind. First of all you can’t see it unless you crack open the head,then there is no point of looking farther for she would be dead.So, yes we look at and judge women by their looks,be it beauty or not. For me I look first at the face then the body to judge if I’m interested,then the mind. Either can break the deal. She can be a real beauty but have an attitude that stops even the most animal instinct in us. So I don’t see your problem. You it’s our fault in the western world but it’s been this way before we were even a country. And remember all the women in the videos you are talking about are getting paid. Regardless of their nationality.
    In my opinion…the most beautiful women in the world rank as..
    1. Asian
    2. Latin (very close to 1st)
    3. White (Eastern European,Russia,Ukraine,Poland and Romanian,)(a very close 3rd)
    4. White (European)
    5. Indian (India)
    6. African (not black American)
    7. American (white) (marry with no aspirations of staying together.)
    8. American (black) (if their attitudes would change they would be way up on my list.)
    9. Arab ( some are very beautiful, but, I just don’t trust them)

     Not all black American women have attitudes, I met a very nice and charming young lady in a Korean restaurant here in Oklahoma who blew me away. She was so nice to talk with and dressed, well,very classy. After I finished my meal I went to the mall and yes, there was the ghetto babes strutting their stuff being loud. Why? To me it makes no sense and, well even black men are running from them.lol  Come on ladies, get real.
       Just my opinion…..and thoughts

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002511874654 Coco Yass

       Ranking beauty by race is quite racist dear.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=530278960 Sarah Edge

      You lost all the credibility that would have come with your age after you started ranking women. You’re 53 and this is the amount of insight you have? My, my you are lacking. I feel quite sorry for you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=530278960 Sarah Edge

    I agree with this, but on the other hand… There’s a lot of caucasian women doing a fine job of setting a very embarrassing example for the rest of us in Korea. The tumblrs I’ve read of foreign girls in Seoul… It’s like reading a Sex in the City script but with more rotation in guys with the only qualifying factor being that they are 1). Korean and 2). Look like an idol they know. I really hate the objectifying of caucasian women in Asian entertainment in general… But if you’re gonna gloat about how much of a slut you are in Korea… this seemingly neverending cycle of sexual objectification is never going to stop.

  • lymeraj

    are you forgetting te fact that the reason y white men and other men like asian women is cause they’re known to be wild and freaky in bed!!! the reason y white women r considered slutty or sexual its cause we’re more open about sex life! our mentality is everybody loves sex so y should we act like we dont? y be fake? im sexual and i love it ( i said im sexual bot a slut)

  • Lu Bu

    It is very disturbing to me that the undertone of this article & the various responses reek of being a shrill call to arms from white women because of perceived objectification & “insulting” stereotypes. Well, to that I say, chill out & sorry if I’m not about to whip out my violin for your “plight”. As a whole, us East Asians have suffered much worse indignity for far longer at the hands of the ever-pervasive Western media.. In spite of claiming to have the most “progressive” society & a cultural melting pot, the West persists in hypersexualizing & exoticizing Asian women. Conversely, Western media won’t accept Asian men as anything but emasculated & de-humanized clones from 5 main, non-mutually exclusive categories: clowns, kungfu fighters, gangsters, perpetual immigrants & nerds – all asexual, apparently. It doesn’t feel good now that the shoe is on the other foot now, does it? What makes the “misportrayal” of caucasian women in a foreign media so especially heinous that warrants anything more than a chuckle? Seems obvious that this demand for special treatment is merely white privilege rearing its ugly head – something caucasians would have the rest of the world believe, is a “myth”.

    Speaking of stereotypes, what have you “morally indignant” white women done to combat the persistently & unapologetically demeaning portrayal of Asian people in Western media? Judging from the popularity of yet another blatantly racist sitcom now in its 2nd season whose name I won’t even bother listing, nasty Asian stereotypes in Western media is obviously acceptable fun. As Western media is still way more prevalent & hence extremely far reaching, Asian stereotypes are comparatively more damaging to Asians than anything that K-Pop could concoct to promote the “slutty” stereotypes of caucasian women in Asia.
    Caucasians tend to conveniently ignore the fact that it is Western pop culture that continually exports the image of white women being the most desirable, not only due to their “looks” – a highly subjective standard, but precisely because they’re the most sexually-liberated women. Is the reputation deserved? Being born & bred in the West, I certainly find white people of both genders to be generally more sexually permissible than Asians. The K-Pop industry is merely reinforcing the popular consensus derived from Western pop culture.

    Truth is, even in distant places like the former western colonies (e.g. S.E. Asia), for generations white men are viewed as voracious sexual predators whilst white women are seen as the perpetual wild whore & highly promiscuous. It doesn’t help that Asian child sex tourism is still a tragically thriving business due to the patronage of white people of both genders. Don’t even get me started on “vanilla” sex tourism in Asia. The sexual exploitation of the poor & wretched youths by Westerners is a massive, ongoing social problem in many Asian countries. To get an idea, if all sex tourists to Asia were, as punishment, shipped to the moon, Western countries would be quite depopulated based on the statistics & across numerous age demographics. Since these negative sexual stereotypes on caucasians are steeped in both historical & present day mores, they will be extremely hard to eradicate from the collective psyche in Asian countries. You can’t fault the general consensus, no, expectation, in Asia & most parts of the civilized world that caucasians are more sexually promiscuous. Of course, there are outliers but that is irrelevant.

    Therefore, until the predominant culture, that is, western media & Hollywood, begins to promote “healthier”, more balanced perspectives on race (white & non-white), gender & race relationships, castigating the relatively nascent K-Pop industry is as silly as putting the proverbial horse before the cart.

    After all, it is clear as daylight that the K-Pop industry largely takes its cues from Western pop culture albeit it evolves according to the wants of the domestic market in Korea & to a smaller extent, its Asian neighbors. The relentless onslaught of Western culture on Asian countries through its pervasive media will continue to shape the perspectives of Asians, for the better or worse. That said, if caucasian women continue to be portrayed as “sluts” in Korean or Asian media, you can only thank the Western media, including the massive caucasian porn industry, for the inspiration. Go gripe to the powers that-be (who’re mainly white men) & affect a change starting here in the US.

    Lastly, the portrayal of caucasian women in those MVs are relatively tame & even more dignified compared to what Asian men & women have to put up with in Western media all the time.

    • chucky3176

       Well said, Lu Bu.

  • soluiz

    Lol what the hell did i just read.

  • http://twitter.com/2uhaha 인생은 아름다워

    well, asian girls = sex object last half century 

  • minah

    ok i dont know why white women feel that they are viewed as a prize or superior to women of other race but that is not the case there are so many things wrong with this and you are obviously not a person worth arguing with the only reason i have chose to comment on this is because of your comment about how koreans view children with white fathers and korean mothers a disgrace to the “bloodline” the korean women “gold diggers” THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE and i dont think that you are of mixed korean so you obviously have no idea what you are talking about i being HALF KOREAN AND HALF WHITE have always been accepted by koreans with open arms on the other hand living in america during elementary and middle and even now in highschool have had to deal with racism problems from white people even though i am half white i cut my self at 9 years old because i was treated so harshly being told things like “go back to your country” “your nasty and asian dont sit by me” ” i dont want to catch dieses go away” “your mom and you are going to hell because you worship budda” ” hey bitch dont eat my dogs” “you smell like rice and eggrolls” and MORE so please dont make comments about things you HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT.

  • Kate

    Well I’m more interested in how the image in korean media translates to real life treatment of white women in Korea. The media and real life are very different ballparks. When I lived in Korea, I was asked/called russian many times even though I’m american. Most was harmless questioning and generally if you are an attractive young white girl Korean men will first assume you are Russian because they are familiar with seeing Russian women who are pretty and dress up like Korean girls. They tend to associate heavy, older, dressed down women with the west. I also lived with my Korean family and Korean husband and being accepted into a Korean family with a Korean husband gave me more “credit” among other Koreans. My husband and I never experienced any negativity towards us from Koreans. When I was pregnant in Korea, even though I am white, Koreans treated as delicate and respectful as they did any pregnant Korean woman. Being white makes you stand out of course and sometimes you would rather disappear because after the first week of staring you get, you kinda realize that a) you may posssibly be one of the first real westeners that the people around you have seen up close and b) they are going to base future opinions of westeneds/white women on how you act. So I see it as an opportunity to counter any negative stereotypes with good impressions based on friendlyness and respect.. I did have many korean guys grope me at clubs but it wasn’t exclusively to white girls, it was pretty much every girl and I had just as many foreign white guys pull the same crap at clubs on me. I had one german guy grab me by a tie I was wearing at a bar and would not let me go until his friend made him and this was in Korea. I think in real life white women in Korea are not treated badly at all, I wasn’t at least.

  • jxs9

    Okay you finally noticed that women are portrayed as crap around the world? Yea because most societies are dominated by men in leadership positions.But US isn’t as bad as patriarchal Asian and Muslim societies.

  • Fuking rediculous

    This is fucking rediculou, if white women are sexualized in k pop then asian women are sexualized in every form of western media that the human eye can see.

  • http://twitter.com/alpacalypse3x0 ─=≡Σ((( つ•̀ω•́)つ

    Sorry, but…./sucks when your race is negatively portrayed, doesn’t it/

  • Ruthie Pope

    I thought that video was just funny. Yeah, it’s a fantasy but the guys were just as erotisized as the women.