• Fresh Lemons

    The most ironic thing is that fans of Kpop are okay with this concept of older guys that into korean idols that are for the most part range from 15 to 25 in their groups but when it comes to Jpop idols, ppl look at older guys who are into that as creepy guys (alot of kpop fans say this) even though the girl groups they are into are the same age as Korean idol groups.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=750740725 Sabrina Muslima Shaw

       I know! You beat me to it lol! These oldies are called cute names in Kpop like uncle fan or w/e. Same thing in Jpop (mostly only girl idols anyways) but they are called wota fans, creepy and what not. I even see SNSD fans bashing AKB because they have “old creepster fans” I mean, comon!! Can’t you see your own bias has them too? -_-

      • idontknoe

        Like the Japanese SNSD fans?

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=750740725 Sabrina Muslima Shaw

          I thought most fans of SNSD in Japan were girls??? or excuse me bcoz I have no clue, all the news article were how girls were gaga over them.

          but in korea, they have a lot more uncle fans. i guess the uncle fans in japan prefer local groups lol

          • idontknoe

            Yea are mostly girls. I was asking about the fans bashing AKB48s older male fans.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=750740725 Sabrina Muslima Shaw

             Oh lol ^^ Japanese SNSD fans IDK, but it definitely comes from I-Kpop fans c: ~

          • Fresh Lemons

            lol my bad I beat you before you were able to comment on it. AKB48 is getting a lot of heat right now since they are the most popular thing right now so Kpop fans like to bash the wotas who are old men. Even When Morning Musume was the big thing people criticize their fan base that had a large percent of older men. I came to a conclusion that many people in the Kpop fandom (both rational or irrational) are hypocrites when it comes to a lot of issues in Kpop in general.

          • Zoey Orlando

             but Kara have uncle fans in Japan right? I think Kara has the biggest number of uncle fans from female Kpop groups, if you look at their MVs or PVs
            it’s basically like this in every video for them:

            Audiences

            This video is most popular with:

            Female

            13-17

            Male

            45-54

            Male

            35-44

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=760628194 Darrin Behm

    You also have to take into consideration that many of these “Uncle Fans” are part of Generation X….the generation that will never grow up. Gen X’ers have seen much change and techno-logic innovation over their lives and have grown up on MTV. Music Videos defined their childhood so the Pop Music scene is in their blood no matter the age. (Yes, at one time, MTV used to just show music videos) Generation X represents a more heterogeneous generation, exhibiting great variety of diversity in such aspects as race, class, religion, ethnicity…etc. So it is to be expected that their taste in most things will fall outside the normal.

    It’s also not only the Uncles…..In recent years look at the pop icons like Justin Bieber and you will see multitudes of “Aunties” screaming during the performances. Yes, given the world we live in, there are more than enough perverts out there scare the heck out of just about anyone and to raise flags over older fans is somewhat justified. However, not everyone is like that and there are those Uncle and Auntie Fans out there that just enjoy a good show and a catchy tune.

  • SPARKLEZZ~ (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧

    I had never deemed uncle fans as harmful to anyone. They are still fans, and no matter what the age, you can be a fan of anyone.

    This does not only apply to K-Pop. Many music icons have fans that are almost twice their age. Justin Bieber, One Direction, Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, etc. You cannot stop a person for liking whatever they like.

    But I guess I can understand where the others are coming from. If you are above thirty, male, and like females that are almost below legal age, as much as the generalization is sexist, you are being what society calls a pedophile.

    Second, if someone mentions ’uncle fan’, the first image that probably comes to mind would be some old men jacking off to a picture of a female idol.

    But the truth is, I have never heard of an uncle fan actually causing harm to or sending an idol dirty messages. If there is any case of it, please enlighten me.

    “Does it make a difference what kind of fan you are whether you are 30 or 13?” To most here, yes, it probably does. K-Pop is mostly generated to teenagers. The sex appeal the female groups sell are not just meant for uncle fans. They were meant for teenage boys in particular, or for teenage girls who looks up to female groups for inspiration to be fit and perform.

    “Why call yourself an ‘uncle’?” Uncle fans care for females almost one-fourth their ages. You have answered this question with the part of Yeran Kim.

    The ‘commercialization of girl bodies’ through female idol groups? Sure, but there is also a commercialization of male bodies through male idol groups, just saying. All the abs and crotch-caressing and the hip thrusts are almost equal to the amount of sexy things girl groups do, if not more.

  • whirlypop

    Because honey, that’s just outright creepy. 
    Assuming they have families, cause heck by that age you should have one.. Imagine your dad obsessing on girls younger than you. Instead of prioritizing your family and the bills he has to pay, he buys CD’s and fantasizes about teenage girls. So what’s the harm, right?

    • theonetwo

      youre going a bit overboard with your description when it comes to uncle fans.  i necessarily dont think all of them are that bad. 

    • theonetwo

      youre going a bit overboard with your description when it comes to uncle fans.  i necessarily dont think all of them are that bad. 

    • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

      It’s no different from a father who is obsessed about sports. No one is accusing them of neglecting their family in favor of watching their chosen team, especially the college teams or even high school sports. Oh wait, no, that does happen. Oh noez, sports uncle fans is such a terrible thing! 

      You do know wota fathers exist, right? (Sorry, habit of mine to use the Jpop term for idol otaku, often used especially in reference to the middle age male bracket)
      Here’s one of them, and the main founding fathers of the international Jpop blogging community, at that. You decide if he’s creepy or not. 
      Oh, and he’s read this article. Here’s his opinion on it. (Sixth blurb from the bottom)

      • whirlypop

        It’s different because the problem here is NOT THE OBSESSION itself but but WHAT THEY’RE OBSESSED WITH.

        Priority’s a part of it but I didn’t really wanna mention this.. There are a whole lot of other things that these men could be obsessed with. And they probably don’t like these girls cause it makes them different or hipster reasons like that. Lol.

        You do know that these uncle fans (who most probably have young daughters themselves) don’t just look at these underage girls and think they’re cute, right?

        These days everything practically has a medical term and I know just the right term for their case, Pedophilia.

        • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

          At which point we come to whether or not pedophilia is inherently wrong, but no, I don’t see that the subject of obsession is necessarily more problematic than the obsession itself. For example, one could argue that sports obsessions have engendered more violence than idol fandom ever has. In which case, then I can turn your question around: “There are a whole lot of other things that these men could be obsessed with – books, movies, comics, etc. Why sports?”
          See also this. This is the father I linked before, although this was written before the birth of his daughter. And finally, I do have to ask, would your opinion of any of the Seoulbeats writers suddenly change if they turned out to be older than you expected, and why should it? Some arbitrary age-based boundary set by laws that are different across nations and cultures? What about me? Does your opnion of my thoughts suddenly change depending on my age, gender, and/or race, and why should it? If I suddenly turn out to be past some demographics line of acceptability, I, and possibly anything I write, automatically get dismissed as “creepy?” That doesn’t seem right to me.

          • illerz

             I don’t see how an obsession with sports equates with an sexual obsession with a child. When this sort of obsession gets out of hand and innocent child suffers. Its quite different than two obsessed sports fans fighting it out. And I am holding myself in check at the implication that it some how the same on the scale of things. Maybe I am just biased but….

            There is this quote that says, “Child abuse kills, and I just don’t mean the physical body. A dead spirit, soul and heart can be much more devastating.”

            It takes a LOT. A LOT to come back from that so don’t tell me it’s the same as your dad being obsessed with sports.

            Don’t get me wrong I don’t think all uncle fans are sick pedophiles no I don’t think that at all. So I don’t want to be accused of that.

            Just to keep everyone safe I’d say grown men should keep away from sexualizing underage children.

          • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

            Our conversation seems to have followed two threads:

            1) You believe that the object of obsession,(sports vs. young girl idols) as well as the nature of it,(competitive vs. sexual) matters because of the disparity in consequence severity.(violence between adults vs. child abuse)  But not every case of obsession ends in the worst case. Not every pedophile preys on children, not every kid who plays violent/sexual video games becomes a shooter, and not every sports fan attacks others in rage over a bad call. It doesn’t mean that we should shut down all sports, violent/sexual video games, or idol fandoms, or declare all fans of them to be creepy. 

            2) Your responses made it seem as if the state of these uncle fans being pedophiles is inherently wrong, even they have not yet done anything close to child abuse. The first comment of yours that I responded to was a claim that uncle fans’ behavior is creepy, followed by a hypothetical situation of how such uncle fans could act that would justify the “creepy” label. Except that I know for a fact that there exist idol fan fathers who serve as a counter-example to that description, so why should all uncle fans be painted with the “creepy” brush? You then responded by implying that they’re all pedophiles anyways, as if pedophilia in an of itself is this horrible state. I attempted to express that I’m not so sure that pedophilia is such a bad thing in the absence of any harmful actions. I’m guessing that “Just to keep everyone safe I’d say grown men should keep away from sexualizing underage children.” was the response to that. 
            This is where it gets tricky, though, since I am someone who can admire a girl who has the confidence to act sexy and carry themselves on stage in a sexy manner, regardless of their age. I’d even say I have become a better person as a result of becoming an idol fan, and I started with some EXTREMELY young idols. (As in, the oldest of the group was only 16 when I got into them, and a lot of my fandom was watching older videos when they were even younger.) On the other hand, could I have enjoyed the fandom equally without the sexualisation of the girls? Maybe. I don’t know. I feel like a culture of shaming against, say, anyone above college age “admiring” tween stars might prevent someone from hearing some great music and getting to know some great personalities, but yeah, it would probably be “safer” in the end.

          • illerz

             I made sure to stress that I don’t think all uncle fans are pedophiles. And yeah I do have something against pedophiles who are attracted to children. I won’t apologize for it. And no one can make me feel bad about it. I think its sick to be sexually attracted to a child.

            I feel like you are saying, an addiction to coffee is the same as an addiction to heroine. Or an obsession to collecting flowers would be the same to an obsession to killing people. Those are extreme in that I wanted to provide a point that obsessions aren’t all equal.

            I don’t care if uncle fans adore an idol star, admire them and their music. Congrats well done. It makes me giggle and I even wonder about these men that like teeny bopper music. But I’m not mad at them, hate them, or feel they should be ashamed.

             But I DO care when its a sexual attraction to a child. And I wouldn’t want any pedophile around my child. Sure that pedophile might be innocent of the act. But I wouldn’t put some pedophile’s feelings over the well-being of my child. I wouldn’t risk.  Again won’t apologize for that.

  • http://twitter.com/PheonixiaJJ JJ=oxygen

    I am just wondering how you place noona fans then?  Of course uncle fans exist but noona fans do too.  For example with Shinee and many new boy groups in Korea.  

    • BBMayMay

      The equivalent of Uncle fans would be ajhumma(?) fans, not noonas. Since the noonafans are basically in their 20s (sometimes older, but they’re a minority), so I think its different

    • Eryca Rockwell

       Ahjumma fans are funny. I remember speaking with my Korean hair stylist about kpop and we got on the topic of 2pm. She asked me who my favorite member was and I told her it was Taecyeon. Her response was, “No Taecyeon is mine, stay away from him, he is mine.” sort of funny, sort of scary because she’s a 40 year old woman ready to claw my eyes out for her idol. But I was like, that’s cool, I don’t like him that much. So maybe Ahjumma fans and Uncle fans aren’t all that bad… but I am sure there are perverse underlying thoughts- I mean have you seen those crazy fanfics kids the age of the idols dish out?

      At the end of the day, they are all equally as creepy, Uncle Fans, (Aunt) Fans, Noona Fans, Oppa Fans, same age fans. Whether it is their perverse, obsessive, or down right crazy way of (fanning?) there is something clearly going on in their heads that isn’t right. Like- since when do we place absolute material possession over something that’s not actually ours? I don’t remember pop fan culture being like this in the days when I was a fan or American pop in 90′s. But maybe I was just never that crazy.

      • Mintmint

        I totally agree. It’s not necessarily the AGE that is frightening, it’s the obsession that some of these people have toward their biases. To be honest, even a teenager saying “No stay away, he’s mine!!!” is really creepy in my opinion. It sounds way too possessive.

        I don’t mind seeing married fans on YouTube giggling over a sexy shower scene of Hugh Jackman for example, because it doesn’t feel like they want OWNERSHIP of him, they’re just expressing appreciation of his looks, acting, personality, etc. It’s kind of like how Kpop fans (the casual and sane ones) jokingly talk about “Oh he’s my husband, we’re going to marry someday.” But turning into this crazily passionate fangirl/fanboy, no matter what the age, is just creepy.

  • idontknoe

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with buying CDs or going to concerts. There’s a lot of stress in a work day and bubblegum pop helps relieve that a lot. We don’t really know what’s going on in their mind, so unless they cross the line(creeper who tried to kidnap Taeyeon) I can’t say that it’s wrong. I think Samchon fans are a lot more respectful than saesang fans. They are pretty normal fans except their age and for the most part are normal. The great appeal of kpop idols is youth, when your older you miss and reminisce of youth. I think that they’re like any other fans, unless you cross the line fanboy all you want.

    Funny thing when I think about it. Super Junior are pretty much adjusshi age to Sullli, Krystal, and most of Apink who they have said they like. It’s just the appeal of youth and bright shiny new things.

    • illerz

       I am fine with it as long as these older men aren’t sexualizing young children/teenagers. I mean when its teenagers sexualizing teenagers its part of growing up (I am not talking about crazy stalker fans) but when its grown men or grown women. Something ain’t kosher.

  • em21di

    “Sex” sells and it doesn’t just work on uncle- fans. 

    • xNoirX

      “Selling forced smile is fate of ddanddara(딴따라), but it’s the path we choose willingly.”
      – Yoo ChaeYoung(played by Son DamBi)’s line from kdrama Lights and Shadows

      * 딴따라 is a derogatory terms for entertainers.   

  • http://randomizm.tumblr.com Chiara Popalopa

    I don’t think the uncle fans are here for the music if you know what I mean…

    • torr tis

      Yeah to stereotypes!

    • http://twitter.com/pc4mo pcmo

      but teenage fangirls who are convinced they’re going to marry oppa ARE just there for the music?

      • nhoki

        I think the main difference is that, the majority of uncle fans are fan of a female idol because she stimulates their sexual fantasies while it’s not usually the case with your average fangirl.

        • http://twitter.com/pc4mo pcmo

          a lot of fangirls are only into kpop for the fantasy/”idol part” tho. of course there are ones who just peacefully buy music, just like there are many older fans who also just buy music and attend concerts. it’s probably not a coincidence that fan scandals have all been either teenage girls or boys (like that uni student who tried to pull taeyeon off stage). I actually can’t remember a single controversy involved with an older fan. if anything, ahjumma/samchon fans are probably more sane/normal on the kpop fan spectrum.

          • nhoki

            Yeah, I’ve read that somewhere too, and I’m glad they don’t do anything crazy. 
            I’m not trying to defend teenage fangirls/fanboys’ crazy behaviors, but it’s still understandable considering their ages and the society they are living in.

            Rationally I can understand why uncle fans fantasize about these girls, the idea still make me feel really uncomfortable. Try to imagine how it is like to be a female idol, you are making money by becoming an object of sexual fantasy to men who are the age of your dad. 

            Reader Coccinelle suggested in her comment to read this article http://thegrandnarrative.com/2010/02/15/girls-generation-korean-sexuality/ which I remember reading years ago, you should check it out! 

          • illerz

             As a victim of abuse here to say I find it creepy and disgusting lusting after underaged idols and I am not embarrassed or ashamed to stick to that.

          • nhoki

            I’m sorry to hear that. I’m not going to say that I understand how you feel cause I can’t, altho I have been inappropriately touched by old men before. 

            Like I said in my replies to pcmo and theonetwo, I find this whole sexual fantasy really unhealthy. But like some readers pointed out, a lot of idols are not actually underaged, however since they usually follow the “cute” and innocent concept, we can’t help but feel uneasy about the weird relation between uncle fan and young idol. 

            The thing is, you can’t control whom you are attracted to, you can however control your actions and pcmo pointed out that uncle fans have never done anything wrong to the female idols. 

            we also have to blame the system, kpop and entertainment companies. As the scandal concerning Open Ent shows, there are a lot of dirty old men who are behind the business, and they know what the male public wants to see, which is idol acting like 15yrs old girl. Female idols then become objects and products used to satisfy old men pervert thoughts.  
            Keep in mind that in Asia, men are attracted to the cute /bubbly/innocent type which is not really the case in western culture. 

            What I want to say is, I don’t think that uncle fans are like any other fans, they are into idols because these idols stimulate their sexual fantasies. But it’s the case for young male fans too. Can you actually stop dreaming about young and beautiful girls as you get older? I’m not sure about that. However, what has to change is your behavior/actions towards these girls. 

            But you know what, even after writing and reading so much, I still don’t know what my feelings are. On the one hand, I want to completely agree with you but on the other hand, I can’t help but feel that at the end of day, consumers are still victims of the system

        • theonetwo

           i think thats the case for male fans in general.  not just uncle fans.

          • nhoki

            yeah of course, but most of the idol girls they fantasize about are underaged. And I don’t know, it makes me uncomfortable to imagine that someone like my dad could spend days and days thinking about these girls, and spending money on them. 

          • theonetwo

            but a lot of idol girls are of legal age as well so putting uncle fans who support these girls in a negative light is kind of wrong especially since i havent heard about anything really horrible happening between a celebrity and an uncle fan.  if that uncle fan isnt crossing any lines then so be it.  he can enjoy whatever he wants.

            if anything,  though its different,  its kind of the same.  you can compare it to my dad being obsessed with the NFL.  he could spend days and days talking about his favorite team and his favorite players and the kids coming out of college who are going to be drafted to his team and how much he hates their rivals and did i mention all the stuff he buys with his team logo on it?

            sheeeeeeesh!!!

          • nhoki

            lol your dad is cute

            I agree with you that there is nothing wrong about uncle fans supporting these girls, and especially if they have never done anything crazy. Like I said in my recent reply to pcmo, I can understand it… rationally. But it’s hard to change my belief/feelings about this whole old men lusting for young girls being somehow unhealthy 

            Sometimes I get hit on by middle age old men (I am 21 btw), and I just find it plain disturbing. 

        • xNoirX

          Sistar, A-Pink, IU…. these are all female idols with significant uncle fan base.  What do they all have in common?  Credible main/lead vocals.  Uncle fans, being older and wiser, cannot be persuaded just with aegyo, and pompoms.

          • nhoki

            I’m not saying that they can’t appreciate their voice or singing. You mentioned IU as an example, IU was active way before she became super famous. She changed her image in order to become famous – the difference is clear if you compare her two MVs Missing Child and Good Day. 

            After replying and reading to everyone’s comments, my opinion on uncle has changed a bit. I still feel uneasy but I will certainly try to be more accepting in the future. 

          • http://twitter.com/Caaaal Callum

            I think the reason why these people wont admit the disgust of some uncle fans, is because they themselves are uncle fans.

          • illerz

             Yeah that’s why their dresses are so short and their pants (do they even wear pants most of the time….no?) correction micro shorts, and all that bouncing around and ageyo they get asked to do ALL THE TIME. I guess they are doing that for shits and giggles.

            If a girl group could go in front of said uncle fans fully covered no aegyo and just sing I’d agree with you.

            I am just being realistic.

        • Pierina D’Amico

          “your average fangirl” has sexual fantasies too O___O
          (I know you said “not usually” and not “never”)
          always remember: they make the fanfics XD lol

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=750740725 Sabrina Muslima Shaw

       Nor are the fangirls, at least a lott of them. You won’t believe the disgusting fantasies I’ve seen of them over at kpopsecrets or fanfic related sites…Kpop is mostly appearance based anyways,

      • Winter_Rose

         i totally agree with you but i just wanted to add on a side note that kpopsecrets is full of trolls so i really wouldn’t take anything on that site seriously

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=750740725 Sabrina Muslima Shaw

           Really? Some of the secrets did seem a bit troll-ish :|

          • Mintmint

            Even on YouTube I occasionally come across top comments that have disturbing fantasies by young fangirls. So I don’t think JUST male fans should be accused of sexualizing idols. Fangirls, and young ones too, do the same.

          • Lo7us

            EXACTLY. I find that especially in k-pop videos, where men are sexually objectified to almost the same extent, fangirls will comment saying something like “If I ever got the chance, I would rape (insert male group member name here)!!!” I’ve actually seen this a couple of times.

            WTF IS THIS? It used to be just males doing this on YouTube videos about basically anything, but now it’s girls too just because the idols are portrayed as sexual objects.

            Is it really that hard to see that regardless of how someone is viewed as sexy, at the end of the day, they are still people with feelings, it is never ok to actually rape someone, etc.

          • Winter_Rose

             yeah a lot of them definitely are trolls lol. a better example to prove your point would probably be sasaeng fans or fan girls that write letters to the idols with their menstrual blood

  • http://twitter.com/doramachan Mara

    The way the Happy Together cast reacted to IU’s presence when she was on the show is a good example of when “uncle” fans cross the line. It was creepy to watch. They all looked like they wanted to pounce on her.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/O2O6HOX2UMCW2SHVJNJ6G7DOYY sonia

      I saw that and I was scared for her, especially when they did the little dance part.

      • Mintmint

        The part where they were all in bathrobes? Creepy to the max.

  • http://twitter.com/CoccinelleGreen Coccinelle

    I just want to point you to a super interesting post on this subject: http://thegrandnarrative.com/2010/02/15/girls-generation-korean-sexuality/

    Basically, there is an untold social convention in Korea that says that the idol girls are nothing sexual, never ever. There is a BIG elephant on the room…

  • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

    Loving the thread Fresh Lemons has going down there. I was going to say that what’s particularly harmful about the “uncle fans” thing in Kpop that is unique to Kpop is how they explicitly deny the possibility of feelings of a sexual nature towards their idols. In Jpop there are some who throw up the “familial affection” reason, but it’s a lot harder to deny at least some lust when idols are doing gravure, and for the most part they don’t pretend that the industry isn’t pandering to their perverted sides. Even the idols themselves in Jpop joke about lolicon. 

    Whether or not these kinds of feelings are okay is a completely different can of worms, blah blah blah Lolita blah blah blah pedophilia vs. actual crime blah blah murky morality. It’s definitely something that even younger 20s fans of Jpop have had to deal with as pre-pubescent girls AND boys become idols all of the time, and I’ve personally had to just kind of thrown my hands up and say “I enjoy it,” but with the knowledge of what exactly I enjoy, knowing that it’s just fandom, and making sure that I behave within the lines of being a fan. But Jpop, at least on the girl’s side, (You can never tell with JE) also enforces a concept of distance between the idol and fan that Kpop doesn’t, which is why I get the impression that Kpop fandom is kind of crazier, both in Korea and internationally, even though Jpop fandom is more “open” about its perversion. 

    • Fresh Lemons

      “But Jpop, at least on the girl’s side, (You can never tell with JE) also
      enforces a concept of distance between the idol and fan that Kpop
      doesn’t,”

      I can definitely agree with this statement. With Jpop idols, they are basically looked at gods and goddess where the fans put them on a pedestal. Fans cant even imagine even getting a simple hug from their idols. In Kpop, although idols are looked up to by the public, fans can actual interact with them where they wont just get a simple handshake and also feel like they are more relatable with celebrities. Kpop idols go as far as to having actual conversations with fans when there is a chance or go on guerilla interview so fans can feel they are more involved.

      • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

        The Morning Musume film “Morning Cop,” in all of its camp, is explicitly one giant morality tale about how fans should be at a distance from their idols. 
        I’ve been told, though, that in some part this is restricted to major-debut idols, which even now is getting a little blurred ever since the 48 franchise started their “idols you can meet” thing, as indie idols often have such small fanbases that they have conversations with fans they know by name and interact with the audience directly during lives. Crowd-surfing, even. 
        Nonetheless, the idol culture itself in Japan is geared towards making sure that fans know their boundaries with regards to idols. There’s that “girl-next-door” appeal, but every fan knows that idols are NOT to be treated like the girl next door because it’s their job, not their identity. And that’s the distinction that Kpop seems to forget, because K-idols seem to never not be on the job, including when at the dorm. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=750740725 Sabrina Muslima Shaw

       I agree ~ I think its another reason you don’t hear about Sasaeng fans much in Japan.

    • Winter_Rose

       i’m not really sure if this is relevant to your comment but i’m just going to throw this here
      http://www.asianjunkie.com/2012/04/culture-society-japan-somehow-manages-to-get-creepier-about-idols/

      • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

        Like I said, whether or not perving on underaged idols is right or wrong is its own can of worms that I am rather loathe to even attempt to unravel, complicit as I am with it. There’s also a question of whether or not Hollywood ultimately benefitted from the strict enforcement of the Motion Picture Production Code, as well as whether it has been the sexual repression in Kpop that has allowed them to make performance polish the focus of things where it’s just an occasional bonus in Jpop.
        Regardless, it just rubs me the wrong way to have people deny their sexual intentions the way uncle fans in Kpop are allowed to do. Lo7us and Mintmint express the problems with denial very well above. 

        All of that said, I read that article and I just kept thinking about all of the engineering that would go into the technology behind that stuff. XD It’s kind of hilarious how Japan keeps making really awesome technological innovations and most of it is idol-driven. This, Eguchi Aimi, Vocaloid, HRP-4C, all of these are incredible achievements of research, and basically Japan did them to make artificial idols rofl. 

  • http://arbitrary-greay.livejournal.com/ Arbitrary_greay

    Loving the thread Fresh Lemons has going down there. I was going to say that what’s particularly harmful about the “uncle fans” thing in Kpop that is unique to Kpop is how they explicitly deny the possibility of feelings of a sexual nature towards their idols. In Jpop there are some who throw up the “familial affection” reason, but it’s a lot harder to deny at least some lust when idols are doing gravure, and for the most part they don’t pretend that the industry isn’t pandering to their perverted sides. Even the idols themselves in Jpop joke about lolicon. 

    Whether or not these kinds of feelings are okay is a completely different can of worms, blah blah blah Lolita blah blah blah pedophilia vs. actual crime blah blah murky morality. It’s definitely something that even younger 20s fans of Jpop have had to deal with as pre-pubescent girls AND boys become idols all of the time, and I’ve personally had to just kind of thrown my hands up and say “I enjoy it,” but with the knowledge of what exactly I enjoy, knowing that it’s just fandom, and making sure that I behave within the lines of being a fan. But Jpop, at least on the girl’s side, (You can never tell with JE) also enforces a concept of distance between the idol and fan that Kpop doesn’t, which is why I get the impression that Kpop fandom is kind of crazier, both in Korea and internationally, even though Jpop fandom is more “open” about its perversion. 

  • c0rs ican

    I don’t know for certain because I’m only an occasional visitor, but given the tone of the article & how simple the writer thinks mens’ thought processes are, I’d guess the writer is female. A male would understand the difference between attraction & sexual attraction; the difference between a girl that you’d want to introduce to your parents & a girl you’d want to take home and screw into next week.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/perfumeah perfumeah

      Exactly…. Not to mention that men aren’t even the only ones who experience different types of attraction.

    • Lo7us

      What, you don’t think women can’t experience different types of attraction?

      What does your comment about the difference between attraction and sexual attraction have to do with uncle fans? I didn’t understand this.

      • Mintmint

        I think a better way to put it is that fantasies stay as fantasies. You might jerk off to a porn star but you never think about actually dating that person or meeting in real life. Even if you do, you probably won’t bother getting excited meeting them or consider it a huge deal. So maybe what the OP was trying to say was that uncle fans might have fantasies for idols but they won’t actually DO anything to the actual idols themselves in real life.

        • Lo7us

           OH okay I get it now :D

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y5AOQU42FE3XOOQ7TWZSNPRJJE S.H.

    With teenage girl fans you have some sasaengs, with uncle fans you have some creepers. I’m not condoning it or minimizing the problem, because I think that the age difference should not be ignored.  But at the same time, what can anyone do about it?  Fantasies, perverse as they may be, are private, and most of the Kpop companies pander to it quite readily.  The difference between Western companies and East Asian pop music seems to be the tendency to infantilize girls, which I think contributes to the issue severely.  Without that weird age dynamic, I don’t think this would be as much of an issue.  And of course, where to draw the line between aegyo and demeaning babytalk?  
    Side note: I was under the impression that E.Via is intentionally an in-your-face contradiction. She wants to mess with your perception of a cute little girl. I’m not super familiar with her but I don’t think she should be grouped with most of the popular girl bands in K-pop.

    • pg13247

      E.via has some pretty risque material (compared to k-pop) which contrasts a lot with her “cute” exterior. It seems that she does this on purpose though so I agree that she shouldn’t be lumped in with the k-pop idols. (*Cough* and she’s more talented *Cough*)

  • Anna Banana

    You

    • Lo7us

      Wow, I am an 18 year old girl too and I find it quite easy to disagree with someone without resorting to calling the author a “retard.”

    • Mintmint

      Well, your patronizing, offensive and condescending tone disgusts me.

      People your age are in college by now. I’m sure you can find a way to argue respectfully using that 18-year-old brain of yours. 

  • zweiosterei

    “There is nothing wrong with being male, above 30 years old, and a fan of K-pop.” Pheeewww, thank God, cause I’m a male, over 30 years of age K-pop fan. I enjoy the music, the dancing, the singing, the look, the whole package really. Yes I occasionally lust for some of the girls but that’s just the way it is, is part of human nature. I’m not a pedophile, I repeat I’M NOT A PEDOPHILE. XD

  • Winter_Rose

    yeah and kpop fan girls do the same thing  they freak out whenever oppa is near another girl for a reason – because tons of them fantasize about their biases all the time because kpop is so based on looks. honestly kpop fan girls are way more creepy and perverted than uncle fans are. yeah you can find a lot of creepy uncle fans, but you can find way more unstable fan girls who think oppa is theirs and stalk their idols all the time. just look at any fanfic related site and articles about sasaeng. the sad thing is they get a free pass because they are young girls. and i’m sorry but i’m not going to feel bad at allfor kpop female idols having these type of fans because they promote themselves that way, those uncle fans buy their music and the companies and the idols know this. the companies promote the idols this way to get more money. they’re benefiting from it. i hate when people try to act like they’re so *innocent* when it comes to these types of things. they know what they are getting themselves into by now

  • Lo7us

    The reason having this attraction can make someone a “near-pedophiliac”
    is because the girls in question are asked to portray a very innocent,
    child-like image, while performing aegyo. By portraying these women as
    almost children, the industry is sexualizing the very characteristics
    that people associate with children. Now being attracted to these
    characteristics definitely blurs the lines because pedophiles are
    attracted to children because of their innocence, and child-like image.
    When the fans in question are male and much, much older than the girls,
    then it looks like exploitation.

    Now I don’t think ahjussi fans are something to be feared or disgusted,
    because imo it is okay to be attracted to girl groups regardless of
    age. As long as they are not harassing anyone, it’s okay. Ahjussi fans are more a symptom of the problem than the problem itself.

    The real problem is the patriarchal society of Korea, which doesn’t
    tolerate positive representations of women controlling their own
    sexuality, but promotes the image of a passive, vulnerable, child-like
    woman being the object of the male gaze. Because this image of a woman
    is more in line with Confucian values, it is more desired. Because it is
    desired, it is sexualized, commercialized, and sold to the masses. Now
    if the passive/child-like woman becomes the ideal, then it is quite easy
    to exploit women because they have to literally objectify themselves to
    be taken seriously in the industry, and because the media has quite an
    influence on the youth, impressionable girls could emulate this behavior. The effect is a generation of young girls in society that pander and perform for men, regardless of age, and thus continuing the sexist cycle that, tbh, exists everywhere whether or not aegyo or uncle fans are involved.

    • Mintmint

      “Ahjussi fans are more a symptom of the problem than the problem itself.”

      I can’t agree more. Rather than blaming the people themselves, I do think that the society they were raised in encourages this behavior to an extent. The uncle fans themselves probably struggle with whether or not it’s okay to feel sexual desire toward these young girls. I personally don’t have a problem with it as long as they don’t cross the line and become creepy stalkers. But creepy stalkers can come in any form, any age, any gender… so by that point it’s a whole different ballpark. Once females are given the opportunity to fully embrace their sexuality as powerful women and not have other people (or males) put them down for it, I think this problem will lessen greatly.

      The rest of your post is really on point!

  • Mintmint

    To be honest, there are “uncle” fans all over the world, even though they don’t use that name or talk about it much. To me, it’s wrong if it’s directed toward a minor, and I don’t think minors should be marketed as sexy unless they are prepared for it. I remember YG telling Minzy to tone down the “sexy” dances because she was only 15 when she debuted I think. She ended up dancing sexily on Strong Heart and in episodes of 2NE1tv there was a clip where Minzy was wearing a see-through black shirt. Considering the fact that I doubt YG forces his idols to do things they would feel seriously uncomfortable about, I think Minzy just likes feeling sexy and it comes naturally to her to dress and dance that way. So for SOME idols, it’s something they like to do, and if they’re comfortable with the fact that some older fans may be, ahem, getting off on that, then it’s fine. If it stays in the privacy of your home, and you don’t go out trying to rape or kidnap these girls, then I don’t see any harm in it. There’s a bunch of weird shit going on in the fanfiction world, but it’s all fake and stays on the internet.

    A lot of models these days start out extremely young (from their early to late teens) because it’s how the industry is built. Lots start out modeling for lingerie and such because it’s easy work to build up a portfolio. I think some Victoria Secret models start out before the age of 18. And on the interviews the older models go to, some of the men who are twenty years or older than them have no problem “hitting on them” and playfully flirting and such. When you’re a celebrity selling sex or even beauty (which everyone famous does, from music to film to modeling, etc etc), you have to accept that some people (or even most) will be using your image for their fantasies. Celebrities spend hours in a chair for makeup, and then get photoshopped after with even more hours of editing. And WHY is all this effort put into making them beautiful? It’s to fulfill fantasies of beauty, sex, etc. for consumers who don’t normally see extraordinarily beautiful people everyday (and with most of these people, they don’t look extraordinary without the special lighting). Modeling can be seen as a form of entertainment, an “escape” into a world of fantasy, because the models are sometimes so beautiful they are alien and “unreal.” Their beauty is what makes them special – what sets them apart from the rest – and it’s their purpose for being in the industry. Even if it’s all smoke and mirrors (aka makeup and photoshop), at least it LOOKS like they are more beautiful than everyone else, and that’s the important part. Who cares if they are regular everyday people without the makeup and photoshop? It’s the shiny and flawless image that excites and encourages people to keep looking in awe, it’s an art and attraction in itself. I personally don’t care if Adriana Lima looks like a troll without the airbrushing as long as she stays pretty on stage for my viewing pleasure (I don’t mean this in a perverted way, it applies to both males and females, we just like to see beautiful people of both sexes). If this WASN’T the truth to some extent, then photographers could just pick up a random person off the street, take a barefaced snapshot and slap that in a magazine, but what’s the point in that if they look the same as everyone else? We might want to see these models without makeup just to see how they are in real life, but to actually use their natural faces to sell magazines? Never.

    There’s a purpose to everything that idols do and pretending that there aren’t older men out there fapping to them is the farthest thing from reality. This is what idols are made to do, it’s essentially how they make their money. When you can’t sing, can’t dance and don’t even have variety skills… if you are the “face” of the group, then guess what that face is supposed to be for? I don’t mean to be crude or pulling puns here, but some idols shoot themselves in the foot when they go into a job they have absolutely no talent for. If you don’t have anything legitimate to offer to the table, then expect to be objectified for your looks. I was reading the comments of a fairly talented artist on YouTube, but the top comments were filled with sexual innuendos talking about how pretty she was (I’m toning it down here). And of course you can’t avoid sexual comments on the internet most of the time, but it was the overwhelming majority for this female artist. The reason why? She deliberately “marketed” or portrayed herself as a sexual person or somebody to be valued because of her beauty, even over her music. In every video she talks about her looks in the info section, and her videos focus a lot on her sex appeal with face close-ups and slow-mo camera shots. My main point is that if you don’t want sexual attention, don’t go looking for it or making yourself look like you want it by the way you portray yourself. If you can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. The idols who don’t want to be seen that way because their management companies force them to, should just go back to school and get a regular job – no one is forcing you to be an idol. If you should know ANYTHING about being an idol before auditioning, that is one of the most important, if not THE most important fact you should know. And if a potential Kpop star can’t see that idols are used (at least partially) to sell sex, then she/he must be lacking a few marbles up there because it’s so damn obvious. Selling sex is a part of the industry, whether it’s subtle or overt.  

    BTW I don’t see how men can’t use women for their fantasies when fangirls do the EXACT same thing, no matter how old or young they are. And age really has no influence on whether or not you have an ounce of sanity. Young ones can be just as dangerous or scary as the older ones (sasaengs are usually young disturbed teens). Just go on any regular fansite and the sexual stuff you see over a photoshoot is almost DISGUSTING and overly graphic in nature, is that really how 12-year-old girls should be talking like? And yes, one fangirl personally revealed her age on the internet so I do know these tweens exist (stupid thing to do but that’s another story). But despite the fact that male idols get noonas from all over the place and even younger fans who spout sexual fantasies PUBLICLY and PROUDLY on the internet, no one complains about it or says it is wrong. Or at least it gets way less flack for it than male fans do.

    The only problem I have with uncle fans is that they hide behind this persona of “caring” about their idols as their nieces or some shit like that, which is extremely CREEPY. What’s the point of hiding behind something unless you’ve got something to be ashamed of? Perhaps it’s the conservative nature of Korean society that prevents even males from coming out proudly as being sexual beings? Even some of the noona fans who are interviewing male idols look so old they could be the idols’ moms but they also have this “hiding” attitude, so maybe it applies to females as well (Does “pedonoona” ring a bell? Lol). Like I said before, American celebrities such as VS models obviously know that they are sex symbols for male (or female!) fans, and don’t put up any masks to hide behind that, so they are apparently not offended when interviewers make a joke out of calling them super sexy because they know that’s what they are there for. I don’t know where I am getting with this argument, but to me, the only thing that I find creepy at all about uncle fans is that they pretend they are like the idols’ fathers and that their relationship is totally non-sexual when in reality it’s the complete opposite. Nothing more scary than a relative who claims you are safe with him and then behind closed doors gets off on sexual fantasies with you… O_O The only solution I see with this is for those uncle fans to freaking come out and admit to it so we don’t have this creeptastic attitude of young idols being preyed upon by old men/women. At least put it out there so people can set boundaries or discuss what’s right and wrong. Not talking about it and pretending that it doesn’t exist just leads to more problems to manifest secretly under the surface. It’s a trend that I’ve seen repeated a lot in the K-industry, whether it’s about homosexuality or sexual abuse of trainees. Too sad.

    • Lo7us

      “My main point is that if you don’t want sexual attention, don’t go
      looking for it or making yourself look like you want it by the way you
      portray yourself.”

      This line seemed really victim-blamey to me. Idk, I think I understand where you are coming from, but it sounds like people can’t be sexual because this automatically invites unwanted sexual attention. I just want to say that any type of sexual encounter requires the consent of those involved, and the fact that someone chooses to express their sexuality isn’t an excuse for someone else to prey on them, regardless of gender. People aren’t objects; they are beings with agency, and either consent to or reject this attention. It is also up to people to not force them into sexual behavior when they do not consent.

      Also, what is considered sexual varies, not only from country to country, but from person to person, and the media, society, etc can shape this. And in k-pop, childish behavior, in addition to sexy behavior, is sexualized. So if a minor, who doesn’t think they are portraying themselves as “sexual” is sexually assaulted, it is really easy to make the excuse that they were being sexy in the way members of SNSD are in MVs such as “Gee”, “Oh!” because they happened to exude that type of “innocence.”

      I guess I’m trying to say that with an increasing amount of behaviors being sexualized, the responsibility lies on the people giving sexual attention to not cross the line.

      • Mintmint

        No I totally agree with what you say. Violence of any kind, whether it is sexual, mental, physical, etc. is wrong. Rape, sexual assault and the like is totally out of line. It is the same thing as seeing a person dressing sexily on the street, but keeping your boundaries and admiring from a distance only.

        People totally CAN be sexual beings, like I said in my first paragraph about Minzy, but ONLY if they are prepared for being seen as such. Like I said about the VS models, they are selling sex and they know it. So going on talk shows and having interviewers show their half-naked magazine photoshoots and talking about how sexy they are doesn’t bother them. This is contrary to, say, Selena Gomez, who is about the same age as the younger VS models (she is 19 I think) but doesn’t dress “sexy” and gives off a different image than her same-age peers. Dara for example, is even older than Minzy but her boyish style and crazy hairdos doesn’t really come across as “sexy”, even though she has probably the most classically pretty face in 2NE1. So what I was trying to get at is, if you portray yourself more conservatively, then most people will not label you as “sexy.” If you deliberately give off a sexy image, then people will see you as such. This of course does NOT excuse violence of any kind. But I do believe people have a choice in limiting/controlling OTHER people’s perceptions of them to a certain extent. Another example would be Meryl Streep. She was a famous actress even when she was young, but we never heard of her being a “sex symbol” even in her youth. Let’s contrast that with Scarlett Johansson, who often chooses roles (and you can even say she gets typecasted into these types of characters) that play the mistress, sexy bombshell, etc.

        Like I said in my first post, as long as you keep your fantasies private like they should be, instead of going out and kidnapping/wanting to rape girls like some creepy messed up stalker, then I think it’s fine. Wanting to hurt someone else, regardless of the motivation or reason (I was drunk, moment of passion, she asked for it, etc.), is completely wrong in every way.

        I think management agencies DO force their idols to be sexual against consent or personal beliefs, which I completely agree it is wrong. However, like I said in my OP, it’s no secret that actresses or idols are forced to do these things as unfortunately the K-entertainment industry is male-run and very corrupted. And so I think it’s irresponsible for young girls (or their parents) to CHOOSE to get into this business when it’s so obvious that the entertainment companies are so visibly corrupted. I think most women have the choice to walk away and go back to school, get a regular job, and forget their dreams of fame in order to preserve their dignity. I do hold hopes that one day the dark side of the Kpop/Kdrama world will be exposed and fixed so women of any age don’t have to suffer through sexual abuse. Until then, I guess my thought is that young girls should wait until they are of age/mature enough to make important decisions when these heavy situations come up in their life.

        About Kpop and childish behavior, I think just dressing like a child doesn’t make Korean men see underage female idols as sexy. A young, childlike female idol in her adolescent stage actually dressing like a child doesn’t make her sexy to male fans I believe. But combining booty shorts (sexualization) with an innocent child-LIKE demeanor makes them “sexy.” So in a way, what I believe is that it’s pretty impossible for a young teen to “not know” that they are dressing sexy or being marketed as sexy. Even when I was younger than most of these idols, I knew that short dresses are inappropriate for someone of my age to wear. And considering how conservative most Korean parents are, they would surely tell their children to dress appropriately while they are growing up. So I’m sure if a management company told them to wear this short skirt or that low-cut top, then I’m sure the radar would be going off in their head, so they should KNOW that they are dressing sexy for other people to see. My opinion on this is that young teens should avoid the industry completely until they are of age, UNLESS you are someone like Minzy who enjoys dressing or dancing that way. But like I said before, when you act sexy, you invite/encourage others to see you in that kind of light. HOWEVER this will NEVER excuse abuse or violence of any kind.

        Just to clear things up, I absolutely DO NOT condone sexual assault because a person is seen as sexy. Lol sorry for the long post, but I felt it should be explained in full.

        • Lo7us

          No, this was a really great post and I understand/totally agree now. Thanks for explaining it to me :D

          It makes me uncomfortable to think that many girls go into the industry with an idea of being famous/well-known/respectable and end up doing so many things (sexy dancing, sexy dresses, sexy wink, sexy booty shot, etc) in their music videos when they themselves haven’t developed a sexuality yet.

          And, not to be OT, but your examples about Meryl Streep/Scarlett Johansson totally reminded me of the Indian film industries (rn I’m thinking Bollywood or Tollywood – telugu movies). Actually imho, the bollywood and telugu movie industry have both gone down the drain in the last few years, but that’s a different rant.

          In the past, even in the 50′s, etc. women actually had legit careers as actresses, and were respected for that. Now, it’s completely different and about 95% of movies coming out either portray the leading female as eye candy, or stupid (because they’re women, duh!) to complement the men’s roles.  I don’t understand HOW most of the aspiring young women would volunteer to essentially play a role with no substance in revealing clothing, when it is obvious that the audience doesn’t respect them for it and their only role is meaningless sexual stimulation. If actresses started rejecting these roles and taking up more meaningful ones, then the film scene could change for the better. Yet, they do not do this because the masses demand it, and they want to make money. The irony is that although sexuality is portrayed to a larger extent in Indian cinema and we as a society should have become less patriarchal than the 50′s, films are more sexist now in that women have no meaningful roles.

          I think I have successfully gone off topic.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1575728366 Nadifa Ibrahim Sheek Ahmed

    not all uncle fan are creepy 
    won bin once said  in a interview that he was an uncle fan of tiffany 
    i know it is soo random but lol

  • intheshort

    I think the issue with “uncle” fans is not about the age or the gender, but more about the intention.

    I mean, you can have a middle aged man with good intentions toward a female celebrity, who is a fan without finding her a sexual object.

    On the other hand, you can have a teenage girl who has has decided to stalk her idol obsessively and constantly take pictures of him/her.

    Both are examples where the actions of the fan are independent of their age/gender. Fans can come in any shape, form, race, creed, class, you name it, but as long as they have good intentions then it’s okay.

    The “uncle” fan phenomenon probably stems from the fact the ones who tend to harbor creepy sexual feelings toward their (female) idol of choice tend to be male and older (I mean, I once read about people photoshopping SNSD’s faces onto naked bodies).

  • goldengluvsk2

    ughh if there are Fan Boys… they can be FanMen too…! the term uncle sounds creepy and for me, looks like a form of pseudo-pedophilia with all the young women acting like 5 year olds… and with the intented familial connection then it can be pseudo incestuous too?! x.x its just getting weirder… for agencies, this weird connection helps them make money cuz lets say when youre 30+ you have a stable income but imo, these fans should man up and accept that they’re indeed attracted to girls younger than them… just like noona fans drool over, lets say Taemin. there are, of course, people that take things out of proportion no matter how old they are… like hordes of zombie sasaeng fans stalking the oppas, some fans would never have a healthy connection with the artist cuz they think they’re objects…

  • Literati Tempo

    IDK I’m on the fence about Uncle/Noona fandom. K-pop is obviously a sexually stimulated market. So when the fans enjoy what the companies are giving them is it really wrong. I have a dating rule 4 up 4 down, so to a 30 yr old looking at a 24 yr old girl as a sexual being isn’t all that wrong. To me even looking at a 20 yr old isn’t a crime and nobody can really stop you. Scarlett Johansen was voted sexiest woman alive by Maxim when she was only 22, so S.Korea isn’t the only one who finds the young girls sexy. Then you also have to take into account that these people 85% of the time have no direct physical connection with the artists. Everyone has their FAP folders and what you keep in it is your business just like 15 yr old girls pasting photos of 20 something JJ on their walls I think a 30+ man/woman should be able to keep pictures of and/or artistically follow someone they find attractive.

    No matter how old the fan is once they decide to take things from fantasizing into real life actions that’s when it gets weird/criminal/wrong.

  • Haibara Christie

    As much as Uncle fans seem pedophillic… what really is the difference between them and noona fans? (Noona neomu yeppo anyone?) There may be some inherent gender bias here.  

    • igbygrl

      I think you are confusing Noona fans to Ahjumma fans….

      Noona fans are girls who are in their late to early twenties.they are in the cusp of being adults yet are still straddling their teen years.

      Oppa fans are similar to Noona fans….Guys who are in their last years of high school or still college students…SNSD has big Oppa Fandoms.

      Ahjumma Fans are middle aged women which straddles in the age bracket between 35- 50 years old….Nuff said that it’s pretty creepy that such women are crushing on prebuscent male idols.

      Ahjushi fans…male version of Ahjumma fans.

      If you still can’t comprehend between each, then just think of it this way in western terms. A good example was was when Twilight movies were at it’s zenith in popularity, their were middle aged caucasian women drooling over Taylor Lautner’s abs. Making derogatory statements like “I wanna ride his disco stick” and “I would drop my panties in a heartbeat if I was left alone with him” and etc….It was rather disturbing reading such crude remarks from women that was the same age as Taylor’s mother o_O

      • Haibara Christie

        I used “Noona” pretty loosely here, but the concept is still the same.  The problem goes both ways.  What I was trying to point out is that there is some inherent difference in reaction that we have when we see a “ahjusshi” fan versus an “ahjumma” fan.  We see pedophilia in the “ahjusshi” but we just laugh when we see the “ahjumma” fan, even when they really are the same…  Like you said, some of these remarks are really disturbing (like the Taylor L. example) and should be viewed as such.  

        Basically, I was just trying to bring up the “Ahjumma” fan issue alongside the “Ahjusshi” issue.

  • destinyanglin

    The thing that creeps me out is how Korea embraces this. I mean, nothing wrong with people Ajusshi or Ajumma liking this music or even developing a fan connection with an idol but when  Hyuna performs Change and Bubble Pop at 18 and 19 and the camera turns to some old guy making drooly googly eyes at her instead of panning the hell out of there to cover that up Korean television will make some cute caption about Hyuna capturing everyones heart or some ridiculous sound effect with stars all around his face.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Willam-Mclean/1003580224 Willam Mclean

    Age and/or gender doesn’t eliminate the sexual lust for the group or idol, if that was the qualifier then there are more people guilty than just samchon fans. Groups of samchon fans, that may gather, pale in comparison to the loyalty that rabid fans of a group or idol have.

    The article writes about Kpop Idol Females and forgets that Male Idols are also sexualised, even more so, than females. TvN Kpop Star Hunt was an Idol search for Cube Entertainment, in the 3rd episode they showed a young male trainee from Cube Entertainment. He removed his top and showed his chocolate abs. The trainer made a comment about it being the standard for a male trainee. I doubt if he was older than 16. The comments from the teen females in the contest were amusing as well.

    The article suggests that K-Entertainment must be run by males, but if that were truly the case, wouldn’t the females be showing alot more than just legs? Wouldn’t Raina’s banned choreography be allowed on television? Wouldn’t Hyuna’s torn leggings she wore for “Hot Issue” be allowed without the need for having something worn beneath them? Would there also be a need for blankets for female guest to cover the lower parts of their bodies?

    If K-Entertainment is run by males, then by measuring the amount of skin each gender shows or is allowed to show, I would guess that the male in charge might prefer those on the same side of the fence he is on. In other words, they could be shopping in their own backyard :P

    The truth is, any fan, of any age, and of any gender may cause harm, as was the case when Taeyeon was grabbed by a male student when performing at the Angel Price Musical Festival. The article is a very dangerous one because it diverts the attention to a group of fans which makes the suggestion that every other fan is less harmful.

    The article seems to want to invent a scenario of the samchon fan and a teen idol meeting when there are many complications.

    Males that are 30+ may not have the time to attend concerts, conventions
    or any other events because they most likely have young families or other similar responsibilites. And even if that were the case, they would likely be beaten to meeting the idols by younger fans.

    Commonly, older males become fans because their children are fans but it’s not something that older men would advertise to anyone. If they do meet older men at “live events” then it will be by “sighting their age” and in that case they may not even communicate. And it’s more likely they are with their children than attending the event alone.

    All guys over 30 don’t look old, the idol and crowd would ignore anyone
    whom looks near their age or in their mid 20s. So for some males, even
    being over 30, they wouldn’t be called samchon fans unless they show
    some sort of photo ID. Any honorifics that may come with age won’t apply
    to those group of men because their “sighted age” looks younger.

    So, assuming he is able to be at the live event and assuming the crowd thinks he’s over 30, would they then make way for him so he could meet the idol? Would they consider him a samchon fan because he’s at the live event? Or would they think that he is there with his children?

    Kpop fans are a creepy lot in general, the sasaeng fan is not going to budge for anyone, let alone a “samchon fan”. Honorifics will fly out window for most fans when they are meeting their idols. Even this article is a little creepy because there is a thought that it’s trying to eliminate the samchon fan so they can get further toward their idol.

    So even if the samchon is a huge pervert, the chances of him getting near the idol are getting smaller because fans probably wouldn’t let him near. And in the event that he does, the security will likely have him before anything could happen. But the idol may still be harmed by the greater majority of non-samchon fans.

    Personally I’d prefer to spend a day with Yoo Jae Seok than any of the SNSD girls although I wouldn’t mind being at a Yoon Mi Rae + Tiger JK concert. I think that the music scene in Kpop is visually and lyrically tame compared to western music. If there are samchon fans that are getting off on that I’d wonder just how sheltered their lives are. Perhaps they don’t know how to operate the internet.

    While the article warns that there is “great potential of harm” from samchon fans, there is even great potential of harm from sasaeng fans, teen fans and any fan for that matter. Because you can’t read the mind of the person, nor truly know what their intentions are. If you are going to treat samchon fans warily, then it would be a grave mistake to ignore the greater threat by the larger numbers of younger fans.

  • taeyeonyoona_

    Near-pedophilia?

    Stop using a word you don’t even know the meaning of, it’s really ignorant!
    Go look at a dictionary and educate yourself.

    Pedophilia =
    ”sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger)

    Last i checked there was no pre-pubescent idols!
    Therefore no pedophilia taking place!

    Idols are full grown women, with breasts, ass, hips, long legs, sexual charisma!
    There are no children in sight…..

    Uncle fans have every right to lust after these beautiful sexy women!
    Once a girl reaches puberty and grows breasts and hips, she is ready for sex!
    It’s 100% natural for a man to be attracted to them.
    Every man on earth fantasizes about high school girls, even if they won’t admit it.

    • Black_Plague

      “Every man on earth fantasizes about high school girls, even if they won’t admit it.”

      Guess I’m an odd one then, considering that I find high school girls to be either immature, panicky or simply just outright annoying to be attracted to, yet alone fantasize. Then again, I hated almost everything about life in high school, minus gaming with my mates and even that wasn’t very often. LOL

      “Idols are full grown women, with breasts, ass, hips, long legs, sexual charisma!There are no children in sight…..”

      I certainly don’t recall every idol being considered fully grown women, considering that a noticeable portion of idols aren’t even adults. Pedophilia yes, is an overused word and in the case of the article, ephebophilia and to a lesser degree, hebephilia would be the correct terms.

      “Once a girl reaches puberty and grows breasts and hips, she is ready for sex!”
      So by your logic, any girl that reaches puberty and grows all those is ready for sex – which also includes those as young as 15, maybe even lower, depending on how early they hit puberty. You make me sick.

      • taeyeonyoona_

        The reason you don’t like high school girls is because they ignored you,
        The hot little girls wanted no part of you or your video game playing nerd friends!

        99% of female idols are over 18 = adults by law.

        It’s 100% normal to be attracted to a girl of ”any age” 15 or even younger.
        as long as she has womanly features, (breasts, hips) 

        100′s of years ago, girls as young as 12 or 13 got married and gave birth.
        It’s human nature, you can’t fool evolution…
        Our ancestors were having sex with 13 year olds, it’s natural!
        Fast forward 100′s of years and because of a ”man made law”
        We now we have to hide our primal instincts for fear of the law.

        Today, i would estimate around 80% of high school girls (13-18)
        engage in ”sexual activities”

        When i was 14 i was having sex with 15 & 16 year olds girls,
        A lot of people my age were too, it was no big deal.
        Teenage girls are beautiful, young, fresh, innocent and incredibly HORNY!!!

        Parents today…..
        they have no idea just how how dirty and horny their little princess really is,
        and the things she does with her boyfriend, if only they knew ^ ^

        • Elly4spirow

          Sweet jesus man stop. You are being incredibally sick. You can try and ‘normalise’ your behaviour all you want, but you seem to live in a fantasy world of highschool, and it’s very disturbing the way you think of these girls who are legally children.

          Yes, it may have been the norm to act like this around young girls 100s of years ago, but that is no longer the norm. Society has evolved. Deal with it.

          Also 

          “It’s 100% normal to be attracted to a girl of ”any age” 15 or even younger.
          as long as she has womanly features, (breasts, hips) ”
          “Today, i would estimate around 80% of high school girls (13-18)
          engage in ”sexual activities” ”
          I would REALLY love to see where you’re getting your facts from. I’m guessing it’s porn. Someone needs to keep you away from schools…

          • taeyeonyoona_

            You’re just jealous that i’m banging hot little teenage girls.
            While you’re banging old worn out 20/30 year olds.

            Teen girls are the best….
            The taste between their legs is so fresh and sweet!
            yum yum, i get high of that scent!

            Sex with teen girls makes me happy,
            why are you trying to burst my bubble,
            worry about your own life, leave me alone.

          • choco.unicorn

            ^ Nah guys, this is just a troll. Either that, or some really butthurt fellow that pretends that any girl even spoke to him in high school, let alone had sex with him. Hey guys, let’s laugh at this idiot! =D

            Nice article ^^

          • taeyeonyoona_

            A few of the girls i was with got butt hurt.
            (if you know what i mean ^ ^)

            Now you better run away while you still can, Otherwise, i’ll work my charms on you,
            and make you my sex slave!

  • BishieAddict

    Why do they encourage it? For the money. As my age is increasing, I’m no longer in the age group of new rookies. I do not apologise for being an older fan. My job allows me to fuel my interest, in comparison to the days when I was a poor student. Yes, I do feel weird when I see the young ones act sexually. I like kpop and enjoy watching performances. I can’t help it if the group members decide to show off some skin and I just happen to be older than them. Young or old, female or male, the stalker fans should be the creeps, not because they are older male fans.