• Gaya_SB

    Rule 34: If it exists, there is porn of it.

    Thanks for the read, Nabeela ;)

  • muggle87

    “K-pop is all foreplay and no orgasm.” idk why but this made me lol so hard. i never thought about it that way. thanks.

    p.s. love the tao pic <3

  • launamberuanxD

    phew, I thought you would judge me real hard

  • find_nothing_here

    Given the attitude Seoulbeats has taken before regarding fanfiction, I was pleasantly surprised by this article.  It’s nice to see something from the other side, that acknowledges the desire for sexual gratification as natural.  (And fun…I think the worst part of shipping is when people take it way too damn seriously.)  It’s very accessible as well…I look forward to your further writing. ^^

    But as a reader (and writer) of fanfiction, I’m curious.  What about the vast amount of fanfiction that isn’t smut?  I was first introduced to Kpop fanfiction in that form; I had a period where I read a lot of smut, and then I went back to “whatever I find appealing.”  I’d personally rather read a well-written PG story over bad smut any day.  It’s interesting to see the diversity of fanfiction put out, as well as the amazing productivity and dedication of some authors.

    I wonder…most fanfic writers are said to be female.  Does the lack of acknowledgement of the female sex drive in Korea (and elsewhere) create this void that is filled by fanfiction.

    This reminds me of an image I saw once of a piece of paper in front of 50 Shades of Grey saying.  “Do not buy this.  This is a terrible book.  There is much better smut on the internet.  Smut that is free.  Smut that portrays BDSM relationships properly.  Google is your friend.  Now go forth and find good smut.”

    • Haibara Christie

      Amen. I could care less for the Rated part, it’s story that’s thrilling. This has become one of my favorite PG stories, and gives a great sense of closure and understanding. Forget the couples, forget the romance, forget the names of the characters and the kpop group they come from and take in the feeling of finding happiness and surpassing loss.

      http://dbsk-bigbang.livejournal.com/10919.html

      • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

        I love that story! ^_^

    • http://twitter.com/Chouchou103 Michele

      Omg that note is gold!

    • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

      “ (And fun…I think the worst part of shipping is when people take it way too damn seriously.) “

      Exactly. I ship couples because it’s fun. And the one Kpop couple I actually think is real (Yunjae), I don’t even ship. It’s not a matter of thinking it’s real or not. Shipping idols is born out of boredom to provide entertainment…and it is entertaining. I can’t stand it when people take it too seriously. 

  • Haibara Christie

    Interestingly enough, often times, the R-Rated fics are the most thoughtful, mature, and well written. Of course there are bad ones, but there ARE very powerful stories that are told in rated stories, or even in fanfiction in general. 

  • http://twitter.com/nadga13 Gil

    I will now take the time to solidify my love for you Nabeela

  • http://twitter.com/AnnaDowns2 Anna Downs

    ERMYGERD
    great article. i recently was talking to my friend who keeps literally nothing in her life secret and we had a wonderful discussion on the merits of gay fanfiction. it was refreshing

    • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

      Lol. XD

  • Black_Plague

    As a fanfic writer and casual reader myself, I’m inclined to agree with this for the most part and it somewhat diminished my general attitude towards smut works in general – a great many I tried (yes, TRIED) reading turned out to be horribly atrocious in grammar, plot, character development etc. up to the point they were just impossible to read past the first page or even a paragraph while others look like they were just random shots with zero development. Some were just plain disturbing.

    Though what I think about fanfiction in Kpop is the lack of a diverse genres. Hell, as much as 90% of the fics out there are mostly fluffy romance stuff that all seem like the same, regardless of how well they’re written. I myself write action fics along with horror occasionally (note – with some degree of sexuality as well) and can definitely confirm that other genres are not as attention-grabbing, often leading to the writers themselves feeling discouraged a bit, even if it turns out to be well done.

  • http://logton.tumblr.com/ Jasmin Davis

    Smut is not a bad style/genre but a line is crossed when you use the persona of real people and illustrate a romantic nature 

    • find_nothing_here

       I don’t doubt that it makes them uncomfortable.  But I think the best thing is not to ask fanfic writers to stop writing fanfics, which is never going to happen, but to ask them to stop shoving it in their biases face.

      • http://logton.tumblr.com/ Jasmin Davis

        I hear stories all the time about celebrities Googling(or Naver-ing?) themselves, so members are bound to find smut . You’re spot on on ways to make smut less uncomfortable(if that’s what’re going for), but I would think the best way to keep both sides at bay would be an understanding or warning prior to reading, that smut is merely a fantasy, like a wet dream, and it is not a fan’s speculation on member’s relationships. 

        Smut is just not my thing, so maybe I don’t understand it. But I’m still curious: If people love their idols so much(to even be such a fan and write such fiction), why do they write something that hurts their idols?

        • find_nothing_here

           Probably because a)it’s hard to care so deeply about someone they actually know and b)a lot of them see it as a strange sort of love, in way.  I see writers invest so much in a fictionalized universe they’ve created for their idols, it’s a strange sort of tribute.  I actually far prefer alternate universe fanfiction because it tends to operate behind that fictional barrier and not try to pass things off as real.  Also, they’re young and probably don’t think about the consequences of their actions.  And there are few legitimately crazy people who will claim they know that this is real, but those are really unavoidable.

          Most of the English fanfiction communities (such as those on livejournal) tend to include warnings for more mature content and often disclaimers such as “I don’t own the boys,” or “this is a work of fiction.”  I’m not sure about the Korean/Chinese communities, however I get the sense that it’s a lot more hush-hush there.  International fans, as far as I know, are much more open to discussing it.

          It creates this terribly interesting underground culture.

        • nipplesvontwist

          I believe smut could make idols uncomfortable, but I don’t think you should take it so far as to umbrella classify it as “hurtful” to idols. I urge you to think about how the spiral of shipping and eating up fanservice and writing fanfiction (including smut) and reading fanfiction (including smut) does everything to further a fan’s devotion to his/her idols. This devotion has monetary returns further down the road, there is no question about this. Idols know that only good things come of heightening the fervor with which fans peruse their media, which is why fanservice and skinship is so prevalent. They do it on purpose, be it for monetary reasons at the behest of their management, their own personal gain in seeing more love from their fans, or maybe they even find it fun and playful. I quite believe in the validity of all three.

          On the other hand, the downside you mention is that it’s uncomfortable for idols to be aware of all these pairings and shipping happening. Frankly, I say as a celebrity you learn to roll with the punches. Just as idols learn to relinquish much of their privacy and the ability to have a personal life in the public, so too do they have to live with other aspects of idol life that may or may not make them uncomfortable. I believe a vast majority of idols have learned to accept that fanfiction and shipping is just another aspect of fan culture. Some idols deal with it well and enjoy teasing fans and making lighthearted fun of it all. Some idols (especially when pressed) admit to it making them uncomfortable. All deal with it in the name of being an idol. I would hesitate to condemn smut and fanfiction in general as something that fans need to reign in, because selling themselves as characters is something idols do from day one of debut. You cannot stop the tidal force that is shipping and fanfiction-writing, nor do I think it even should be stopped. You say including a disclaimer that fanfics are just for fun and not actual speculation on a group relationship, but what would be the point? If you’re going to take fanfiction that seriously (and I doubt most idols do), you’re not going to let a disclaimer sway you. My point being, don’t think of smut as so hurtful. Idols are all more than aware of its existence as a side effect of fame and deal with it as such, whether they a) don’t mind it or b) do mind it and accept it as just another facet of fame that they aren’t completely happy with.All that said, fans mustn’t shove their fanfictions in idols’ faces, that’s rude. But the same can be said for fans shoving anything in their idols’ faces, like their belief that oppa should not date or placards that oppa could please sign or their fan letters or what have you. In general, fans should be respectful and thoughtful with what they’re giving their idols and how they are presenting themselves, fanfiction-related or not.

        • nipplesvontwist

          I believe smut could make idols uncomfortable, but I don’t think you should take it so far as to umbrella classify it as “hurtful” to idols. I urge you to think about how the spiral of shipping and eating up fanservice and writing fanfiction (including smut) and reading fanfiction (including smut) does everything to further a fan’s devotion to his/her idols. This devotion has monetary returns further down the road, there is no question about this. Idols know that only good things come of heightening the fervor with which fans peruse their media, which is why fanservice and skinship is so prevalent. They do it on purpose, be it for monetary reasons at the behest of their management, their own personal gain in seeing more love from their fans, or maybe they even find it fun and playful. I quite believe in the validity of all three.

          On the other hand, the downside you mention is that it’s uncomfortable for idols to be aware of all these pairings and shipping happening. Frankly, I say as a celebrity you learn to roll with the punches. Just as idols learn to relinquish much of their privacy and the ability to have a personal life in the public, so too do they have to live with other aspects of idol life that may or may not make them uncomfortable. I believe a vast majority of idols have learned to accept that fanfiction and shipping is just another aspect of fan culture. Some idols deal with it well and enjoy teasing fans and making lighthearted fun of it all. Some idols (especially when pressed) admit to it making them uncomfortable. All deal with it in the name of being an idol. I would hesitate to condemn smut and fanfiction in general as something that fans need to reign in, because selling themselves as characters is something idols do from day one of debut. You cannot stop the tidal force that is shipping and fanfiction-writing, nor do I think it even should be stopped. You say including a disclaimer that fanfics are just for fun and not actual speculation on a group relationship, but what would be the point? If you’re going to take fanfiction that seriously (and I doubt most idols do), you’re not going to let a disclaimer sway you. My point being, don’t think of smut as so hurtful. Idols are all more than aware of its existence as a side effect of fame and deal with it as such, whether they a) don’t mind it or b) do mind it and accept it as just another facet of fame that they aren’t completely happy with.All that said, fans mustn’t shove their fanfictions in idols’ faces, that’s rude. But the same can be said for fans shoving anything in their idols’ faces, like their belief that oppa should not date or placards that oppa could please sign or their fan letters or what have you. In general, fans should be respectful and thoughtful with what they’re giving their idols and how they are presenting themselves, fanfiction-related or not.

        • nipplesvontwist

          I believe smut could make idols uncomfortable, but I don’t think you should take it so far as to umbrella classify it as “hurtful” to idols. I urge you to think about how the spiral of shipping and eating up fanservice and writing fanfiction (including smut) and reading fanfiction (including smut) does everything to further a fan’s devotion to his/her idols. This devotion has monetary returns further down the road, there is no question about this. Idols know that only good things come of heightening the fervor with which fans peruse their media, which is why fanservice and skinship is so prevalent. They do it on purpose, be it for monetary reasons at the behest of their management, their own personal gain in seeing more love from their fans, or maybe they even find it fun and playful. I quite believe in the validity of all three.

          On the other hand, the downside you mention is that it’s uncomfortable for idols to be aware of all these pairings and shipping happening. Frankly, I say as a celebrity you learn to roll with the punches. Just as idols learn to relinquish much of their privacy and the ability to have a personal life in the public, so too do they have to live with other aspects of idol life that may or may not make them uncomfortable. I believe a vast majority of idols have learned to accept that fanfiction and shipping is just another aspect of fan culture. Some idols deal with it well and enjoy teasing fans and making lighthearted fun of it all. Some idols (especially when pressed) admit to it making them uncomfortable. All deal with it in the name of being an idol. I would hesitate to condemn smut and fanfiction in general as something that fans need to reign in, because selling themselves as characters is something idols do from day one of debut. You cannot stop the tidal force that is shipping and fanfiction-writing, nor do I think it even should be stopped. You say including a disclaimer that fanfics are just for fun and not actual speculation on a group relationship, but what would be the point? If you’re going to take fanfiction that seriously (and I doubt most idols do), you’re not going to let a disclaimer sway you. My point being, don’t think of smut as so hurtful. Idols are all more than aware of its existence as a side effect of fame and deal with it as such, whether they a) don’t mind it or b) do mind it and accept it as just another facet of fame that they aren’t completely happy with.All that said, fans mustn’t shove their fanfictions in idols’ faces, that’s rude. But the same can be said for fans shoving anything in their idols’ faces, like their belief that oppa should not date or placards that oppa could please sign or their fan letters or what have you. In general, fans should be respectful and thoughtful with what they’re giving their idols and how they are presenting themselves, fanfiction-related or not.

          • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

            ” If you’re going to take fanfiction that seriously (and I doubt most idols do), you’re not going to let a disclaimer sway you.” Hear hear, anyone who is delusional enough that they don’t realize the author doesn’t own the band and the fanfiction isn’t real, but in fact is a made up story created for fun, isn’t going to be dissuaded by a disclaimer. Which is why I never bother to write disclaimers on the fics I write, because by the very definition of fanfiction, I obviously don’t own the person I’m writing about, and it is of course a fictional story.

          • Haibara Christie

            Thank you so much.  Honestly, whatever the fanfiction, smut or not, it shouldn’t be taken seriously. Authors are not writing about Idols, they are writing about FAKE characters that have a face and a background personality that most readers can immediately associate with the name.  Using known entities, real or not, provides the writer freedom to explore plots rather than taking time to create an image for the reader of who the character is.  If someone writes a fanfiction about Kyuhyun playing video games in a tournament where he meets, say BoA (I’m totally making this up on the spot), and falls in love with her, people can easily associate an image of the two characters and even get a sense of their personality before the author even says a word about them.  That’s the magic of fanfictions.  It takes the collective knowledge of a population and places that background into a fantasy of the author’s creation.  There is a clear difference between reading a fanfiction in a community that you know quite a lot about versus something you may have known nothing about.  For example, let’s say that a person knows a lot about Sherlock and nothing about Kpop.  If I wrote the same story using John and Sherlock instead of Kyuhyun and  BoA, that person will react more strongly to the scenario than before, because of the past experiences the readers have and the character development presented in the show. 

          • http://logton.tumblr.com/ Jasmin Davis

            What about that time when Yunjae signs(and TVXQ signs) were so abundant at JYJ concerts that they were banned? Or have you seen any of the Taoris or Hunhan (I hate to repeatedly use EXO, but they’re the most recent examples) in the airport photos or performances? 

            I suggest some kind of warning or understanding so that a person’s shipping fantasy stays online or in your head. I say its ‘hurtful’ to idols considering it could damage a relationship, but it’s disregarding their hardwork and talent when people continuously bring such signs and say something about their OTP *everytime* they just sit next to each other or sing a song.

            Idols shouldn’t expect anything. Idols are human beings who deserve respect and privacy. They shouldn’t expect anything. They are merely performers on stage. They shouldn’t expect hackers and cameras prying into their everyday lives. They shouldn’t expect to see hardcore porn written, or even drawn, about them fucking they’re best friend because they sat next to each other in an interview. They shouldn’t expect anything. Fans have no right to disregard their privacy and feelings just to get off. And especially groups who have done no fan service to spark any of this. 

            We can agree to disagree, and I’m slowly getting off topic, so I don’t care to say anymore. 

          • nipplesvontwist

            I think you missed my point… I said that WHATEVER fans do, be it ship-related or not, it should be done in moderation and with all respect to the idols. I do NOT condone sasaeng fans who follow idols in taxis and deliberately crash their cars or hack their computers or climb in through dorm windows or send tampons in the mail. Just as I do NOT condone sasaeng fans who shove pornography in their idols’ faces. I absolutely am NOT suggesting idols should expecting to give up basic human rights and receive no decency from their fans, nor will any sane consumer of fanfiction ever. You are lumping them all under the umbrella of basket case crazies who want nothing but to see their idols have naked buttsex onstage, and that is an injustice.

            You are discussing exclusively the extremists. But just as with any other aspect of fandom, there are the extremes that push too far (not just with shipping), and those who are perfectly sane. Those who do exactly what you say, and keep the shipping in their head. In this perfectly sane branch of fans fanfiction is a natural and playful extension of the fandom. Yes, even the smut readers and writers. You simply are exploring more deeply the characters you’ve grown to love through other forms of media. The key is that anyone who is not an extreme, anyone who has a square head on her shoulders while reading, understands that these are CHARACTERS we are dealing with. Not the human beings themselves. And they will keep the two separate in their minds. Those extremists are those who cross two by bringing manifestations of the characters to the human beings and expect there to be a parallel between fantasy and reality. I find fanfiction itself to be very playful and completely harmless. It is so prevalent because in order to derive any enjoyment from a fanfiction, you must be at least somewhat familiar and fond of the characters involved. Thus fan devotion and fanfiction consumption are directly correlated, and the more you love an idol(‘s character) the more fanfiction you are likely to read. This works backwards as well, and fanfiction can help engage you in following an artist more carefully. And if the writers and readers are sane, they acknowledge that there is a disconnect between what is happening in the story and what may or may not be happening in reality, and if the writers and readers acknowledge this disconnect, at no point should fanfiction, even if an idol accidentally stumbles across it, threaten any existing relationships in reality.

            In conclusion, I believe that inherently, fanfiction is not harmful. It has potential to be incredibly poignant and meaningful, even, to a skilled writer who understands the characters well, and that is why it is so popular. Think of it like any other aspect of fandom. Delusional fans who hire cars to follow idols home and into bed? Not fine. Following idols to public events itself? Fine. Delusional shippers who overstep their bounds and foist pornography onto idols? Not fine. Fanfiction itself? Fine.

    • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

      How many times have I seen idols grab their members and pretend to be making out with them hardcore, or grab their butt, or perform some other act that while pretend, is very definitely implying sexual/romantic implications. It’s an act, but it is an act performed for the fans, and encourages the fans to ship the members together. Why? Because fans love that, and it will help cement their devotion to the idol and their band. Even if the idol is a bit uncomfortable doing such acts, it seems a bit hypocritical to me to encourage the fans to romantically ship the band members together, and then be upset when those fans actually do so, and go home and write fanfiction. Don’t encourage someone to do something and then complain when they do it.

      • http://logton.tumblr.com/ Jasmin Davis

        What about groups who haven’t performed such fan service, like EXO? Should they expect fanfiction between members because ‘oh, How many times have I seen idols grab their members and pretend to be making out with them hardcore, or grab their butt’? It’s a faulty logic that can’t be applied to all groups.
        I understand your point in how encouraging it is, but it shouldn’t mean that they should expect a story about how in love they are with a band mate and how they secretly want to shove them against a wall and dry hump. Smut is riding on a very blurry line when it involves real people. I personally believe that there some things should not be written about, but others will disagree

      • animasaurus

        Honestly, it’s because they are from Asia. I think people see things in a different way because it is a group they love and their bias (maybe not the kissing lol but you get the point) so any sort of “skinship” is seen as a little more romantic than it may seem otherwise?

        I used to think along those lines too, like “maybe they are gay?” (not that it’s a bad thing) but my opinion was changed after seeing that kind of affection irl. My dad is really good friends with the crazy old Chinese guy that owns a restaurant we go to sometimes. Anyways, he is ALWAYS grabbing my dad’s hands, hugging him at random times, and patting him whenever they have conversations. Is he in love with my dad? Absolutely not. He just comes from a different culture where that is how friends act with one another. I think that with idols, it’s the same. They are close, most of them live together, so it seems only natural that they act that way with each other.

        Of course there are idols who do it because the fans love it… and also do things with a “romantic” implication… but doing something for entertainment’s sake to make the fans happy is different than having it translate to something more than that imo. It’s one thing to joke about it, and another to take it seriously and start to believe it such as “shipping” the members in a romantic way etc.

      • animasaurus

        Honestly, it’s because they are from Asia. I think people see things in a different way because it is a group they love and their bias (maybe not the kissing lol but you get the point) so any sort of “skinship” is seen as a little more romantic than it may seem otherwise?

        I used to think along those lines too, like “maybe they are gay?” (not that it’s a bad thing) but my opinion was changed after seeing that kind of affection irl. My dad is really good friends with the crazy old Chinese guy that owns a restaurant we go to sometimes. Anyways, he is ALWAYS grabbing my dad’s hands, hugging him at random times, and patting him whenever they have conversations. Is he in love with my dad? Absolutely not. He just comes from a different culture where that is how friends act with one another. I think that with idols, it’s the same. They are close, most of them live together, so it seems only natural that they act that way with each other.

        Of course there are idols who do it because the fans love it… and also do things with a “romantic” implication… but doing something for entertainment’s sake to make the fans happy is different than having it translate to something more than that imo. It’s one thing to joke about it, and another to take it seriously and start to believe it such as “shipping” the members in a romantic way etc.

        • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

           Heh, yeah the whole skinship idea kind of threw me when I first got into Kpop. I didn’t think they were all gay, it was just odd. Something I wasn’t used to seeing.

           I was talking more about the actions that were done specifically for the fans. I mean, there’s a difference between a friendly pat or slap on the butt between guys, and grabbing that guys butt and squeezing it, and there’s a difference between hugging eachother, and one of the guys running his hand into the other members open shirt and feeling around his chest area and abs for an extended period of time. You know what I mean?

          • animasaurus

            Aah okay, got it. That I completely understand haha :)

          • FlaminMinho

            Nah, the guys are teasing each other. It’s just for fun because they know it will embarrass or annoy the other guy, so they do it. It is just horsing around. I am sure quite a few pop singers are gay — the performance industry has many gays in it, but my gay radar is pretty good, and for the majority of the times that you see kpoppers doing that – touching each other in a sexual way — it’s done for fun or to titillate. 

        • find_nothing_here

          But this is the entertainment industry, isn’t it?   I don’t think its completely incorrect to assume that some idols are in fact, gay, and use fan service to blow off their own sexual tension.

          • animasaurus

            Not at all, I’m saying that it shouldn’t be automatically assumed that it is in fact romantic. I have strong feelings about gay kpop idols so my statement was definitely not meant to be negative.

          • find_nothing_here

            Okay, got you there. ^^  I really do think that people should apply the same things to male and female idols who have perfs together.  Just because Hyuna and Hyunseaung perform together and get a long doesn’t mean they’re in love with each other.

      • FlaminMinho

        I think that’s natural behavior. It’s not necessarily “fan service”. It’s just the way guys who are close to each other behave. I am sure some of them do it because they know their fans like it, but I think most of the time, it’s just normal behavior between good friends. In Korea, men are more affectionate with each other. Men who are friends will touch one another, even hold hands occasionally. There is nothing sexual about it. Women will do the same. They will hold hands. It’s western culture that makes these things “sexual”. So for Koreans and other Asians with similar cultures, there’s nothing unusual about this behavior. In fact, I can imagine if you are gay and attracted to another man, you might try and avoid touching that person because it would embarrass you and make you uncomfortable. 

        Attitudes towards homosexuality are different in Korea than in the west. There is no taboo about it. I mean most wouldn’t want their sons to be gay, but they know homosexuality exists. “Frozen Flower” and “The King and the Clown”, which were about gay lovers, were top-rating movies. Nobody made a big deal about the gay themes. People know who are gay in their circle, but they treat them like anyone else. They don’t point fingers or start hating on them or are violent to them. People say Korea is homophobic because some Koreans will say things like, “There are no gays in Korea” but what they think they mean is that gays just blend in with everyone else in society. There is not a distinct gay community (except maybe in Itaewon) with gay clubs, bars, gyms etc or militant gay rights groups etc. Ordinary people who are gay would probably live like everyone else. Only celebrities may be open about it and flaunt it. A few celebrities have come out of the closet lately and Korean society has in general responded by saying, “Isn’t that interesting?” but there is generally not that much shock about it. 

        I think it’s accepted in Korea that young men can act gay even if they’re not. It’s seen as cute, nothing really sexual or anything. I don’t think Minho’s parents for example go to bed worried that their son is gay because he got kissed by some men on TV. 

        Some fanfic pairings annoy me, but I really enjoy them on the whole. It’s a new dimension to k-pop that I’ve discovered. I’m new to k-pop, and am really impressed with the writing. I don’t read novels as a rule, but these short fanfic pieces are engrossing. I mean some of these writers are really professional — wonderful writing. It’s also good to realize other people share the same (guilty) fantasies as me, and that actually this kind of behavior is quite “normal” in my opinion. 

        I think if an idol of mine got really upset about the smutty fanfic he came across, my opinion of the idol would change. I would want my idol to be mature about it, and understand that being an idol means that many people are going to have sexual fantasies about them. And for many women, gay fantasies really turn them on even though in reality they would not want their idols to be really gay in life. I think the idols I care about are pretty open-minded individuals and that’s why they are my biases. They might get a tinge embarrassed about being in a fanfic with their good friend, but I think they would be sensible enough not to read further or just avoid that stuff if it makes them too uncomfortable. I think many of them have read smut fanfic out of curiosity (in Korean) maybe not in English, and just thought it was weird that girls get a kick out of that sort of stuff. But if they are secure about themselves, and know that they aren’t gay, I don’t think it would affect their relationship with the fellow idol they are shipped with. 

      • FlaminMinho

        I think that’s natural behavior. It’s not necessarily “fan service”. It’s just the way guys who are close to each other behave. I am sure some of them do it because they know their fans like it, but I think most of the time, it’s just normal behavior between good friends. In Korea, men are more affectionate with each other. Men who are friends will touch one another, even hold hands occasionally. There is nothing sexual about it. Women will do the same. They will hold hands. It’s western culture that makes these things “sexual”. So for Koreans and other Asians with similar cultures, there’s nothing unusual about this behavior. In fact, I can imagine if you are gay and attracted to another man, you might try and avoid touching that person because it would embarrass you and make you uncomfortable. 

        Attitudes towards homosexuality are different in Korea than in the west. There is no taboo about it. I mean most wouldn’t want their sons to be gay, but they know homosexuality exists. “Frozen Flower” and “The King and the Clown”, which were about gay lovers, were top-rating movies. Nobody made a big deal about the gay themes. People know who are gay in their circle, but they treat them like anyone else. They don’t point fingers or start hating on them or are violent to them. People say Korea is homophobic because some Koreans will say things like, “There are no gays in Korea” but what they think they mean is that gays just blend in with everyone else in society. There is not a distinct gay community (except maybe in Itaewon) with gay clubs, bars, gyms etc or militant gay rights groups etc. Ordinary people who are gay would probably live like everyone else. Only celebrities may be open about it and flaunt it. A few celebrities have come out of the closet lately and Korean society has in general responded by saying, “Isn’t that interesting?” but there is generally not that much shock about it. 

        I think it’s accepted in Korea that young men can act gay even if they’re not. It’s seen as cute, nothing really sexual or anything. I don’t think Minho’s parents for example go to bed worried that their son is gay because he got kissed by some men on TV. 

        Some fanfic pairings annoy me, but I really enjoy them on the whole. It’s a new dimension to k-pop that I’ve discovered. I’m new to k-pop, and am really impressed with the writing. I don’t read novels as a rule, but these short fanfic pieces are engrossing. I mean some of these writers are really professional — wonderful writing. It’s also good to realize other people share the same (guilty) fantasies as me, and that actually this kind of behavior is quite “normal” in my opinion. 

        I think if an idol of mine got really upset about the smutty fanfic he came across, my opinion of the idol would change. I would want my idol to be mature about it, and understand that being an idol means that many people are going to have sexual fantasies about them. And for many women, gay fantasies really turn them on even though in reality they would not want their idols to be really gay in life. I think the idols I care about are pretty open-minded individuals and that’s why they are my biases. They might get a tinge embarrassed about being in a fanfic with their good friend, but I think they would be sensible enough not to read further or just avoid that stuff if it makes them too uncomfortable. I think many of them have read smut fanfic out of curiosity (in Korean) maybe not in English, and just thought it was weird that girls get a kick out of that sort of stuff. But if they are secure about themselves, and know that they aren’t gay, I don’t think it would affect their relationship with the fellow idol they are shipped with. 

    • scuttlepants

      When idols are on stage and promoting, they’re promoting their brand. It’s not the real them- Tao and Kris are stage names. They act in the way they think fans want them to act.
      Like Silver said, Idols play up skin ship and it wins them fans. It’s not real, but they are creating a story; a story that fans love to imagine. I don’t see a problem with taking it further (meaning smut or whatever else) provided that all fans and creators understand the bottom line: It isn’t real.

  • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

    Ha! I remember reading an excerpt from 50 shades of grey and having that exact same thought. “I’ve read better fanfiction.”

    I remember reading an article once about a study that was done. People were concerned saying that the newer generations were reading less and less, and would eventually become illiterate, but the study proposed that the form reading is taking is just changing. One of the things they mentioned was fanfiction. They found that most teenagers would say that they hardly ever read books, but upon closer investigation found out that they read hours and hours of fanfiction every week, and a lot of them wrote stories themselves as well. I have to admit even for myself, sometimes it becomes why spend $20 or so of my hard earned money to buy a book, when with a little bit of searching and time I can find a well written fanfiction story about my favorite bias. Some of those fanfiction writers are so awesome, they ought to be paid authors themselves.

  • Ditu3ka

    For me fanfiction about real people is uncomfortable read (and I think it´s uncomfortable for protagonists too) but I enjoy those about fictional characters (from dramas, books, etc.), and yes, those are sometimes better than “real” books from bookstores (I got a copy of 50 Shades of Grey as a present. … well, I think I know what I´m talking about :-))

  • animasaurus

    Personally, I can’t bring myself to read it. It’s odd thinking of real people as objects in a way like that. I think it in large part has to do with the fact that I wouldn’t want something like that made about me or read something like that about myself… too weird imho. I don’t take offense to people who like it though, just a different perspective on the matter is all.

  • animasaurus

    Personally, I can’t bring myself to read it. It’s odd thinking of real people as objects in a way like that. I think it in large part has to do with the fact that I wouldn’t want something like that made about me or read something like that about myself… too weird imho. I don’t take offense to people who like it though, just a different perspective on the matter is all.

  • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

    Nabeela…I love you.

  • http://twitter.com/lillian23910 Sharon

    “hell there is even smut about EXO-M’s Kris and the alpaca plushie he received from a fan at the airport not too long ago” 0_O How can a human and a plushie…I’m not gonna ask.I don’t mind smut, just not with real people in it…..I prefer fake pll. But your right about fanfictions being the same as those romance novels. In fact, it cracks me up just how poorly written some of these romance novels can be. 

    There is nothing wrong with liking fanfictions and smut. The porn industry is made by men for men. Fanfictions are made by women for women, probably why it’s so popular in kpop, where most of us are girls. Hell, in real life most of these idols help to fulfill our fantasy of two hot guys getting it on, by constantly flirting with eachother.Btw, I see a lot of suju fans comment on Japanese gay movies and dramas. Lol, I don’t know why that is the case. 

    • http://twitter.com/sebsobandsky Sabah

       Good point about the smut for women by women angle. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/W2P7EB45RPJAKAF37HJXZYAXRI Yang

    no offense, but I found smut fanfiction is disgusting. I know those idols don’t do “that” , at least not between SeungHo and G.O. But still it’s inhumane to see them that way. It’s just not right.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3O73S4PB7NZRSRVPOOCIH3ZG34 Susan

      How is that inhumane? And what exactly is so wrong about fantasizing about people you find attractive?

  • swinter101

    I love Shinhwa fanfics and it seams like the member read some because Minwoo loves to teas Eric & Hyesung(Ricsyung) about in concert and other fan events. Fanfics like 49days to a second chance a shinhwa fanfic tht was so popular

  • http://twitter.com/#!/swheekun swheekun

    Nothing we don’t already know….. Alas, it’s nice to see someone on this site admitting to the existence of one of fandom’s largest phenomenons. Anyone who says they’re here 100% for the music is kidding themselves. 
    Though I’ll have to disagree with the statement, “but unlike K-pop, smut fanfiction is free.” ….uh, K-pop is probably one of the easiest things in the world to *not* pay for. It’s illegal, yes, but that doesn’t change the fact that downloading the latest Epik High album literally took a fraction of the time and effort of scrolling through tumblr for a half-decent fic of my OTP.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/3O73S4PB7NZRSRVPOOCIH3ZG34 Susan

    I haven’t read fanfic for the better part of a decade so I decided to check some out…and I couldn’t get past the opening paragraphs because of the horrendous writing.

  • anono101

    …am I the only person who wants to know what smut Nabeela reads?

  • anono101

    …am I the only person who wants to know what smut Nabeela reads?

  • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

    I know and totally understand that some people don’t feel comfortable reading fanfiction about real people. But I really hate that people judge me for doing so. 

    In a way, idols kind of aren’t real to me. Oh, sure, I “know” they are real people and I all…but I’ve never met them. I’ve never seen them in real life. I’ve only seen them through my computer screen. And most of you probably haven’t either. 

    I’m only using created personas of them for recreational purposes. It’s practically not even a real person, the way I see it. It looks like the person, maybe talks like the person, and maybe has the same habits. But we have no way of knowing what idols are thinking. We can’t get inside their heads. Fanfiction about real people is really fanfiction about imagined personas of real people. I don’t see what the big deal is; it’s not like I’m actually reading the truth. I know it’s a story. And idols would know that too, if they ever read fanfiction. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/YQ53WK5K4DPXQ5DIBKDELB6WPE Camille

    FYI, “50 Shades of Grey” isn’t inspired by fanfiction. It IS fanfiction. An AU Twilight fanfic that got published with names as Christian and Ana instead of Edward and Bella.

  • b55555b

    i had to look up what smut meant on urbandictionary lol. i think i only read a few fanfictions. in middle school…9 years ago =P my friends were really into Shinhwa even though i had no idea who they were until high school.. around the same time i was introduced to TVXQ. i just read whatever they already had. i must say the plot/story was pretty interesting. and in-depth. lots of character building and growing. very… innocent. i tried reading some recently (one or two years ago to be exact) and holy crazy monkey cows, they were bad. not bad as in writing style or grammar, but content bad. the details. the descriptions. sooooo bad. i have no clue how old the authors are.. but they have some pretty damn raunchy imaginations. mind you, i’ve read/heard/seen some pretty “mature” stuff, but with just a few “chapters,” these fanfiction authors had me cringing and making WTF faces. people these days… lol

  • http://twitter.com/sebsobandsky Sabah

    I am a prude and so I am pretty much against smut etc HOWEVER if I may just put a pin in that part of my character for the moment…

    If my college class mate began writing a raunchy fanfic based on my character (maybe getting it on with my language teacher) I would be weirded out and maybe even offended.  The first point of defence for the writer would be that the character is ‘based’ on me not actually me because of course, they don’t really know the ‘real’ me.  It is an estimation of me which has been exaggerated and at the most my character has been manipulated to tell a story rather than an actual exploitation of my being.  In my opinion this is like Kpop fanfics.  Writers base their protagonists on their ideas, perceptions, estimations of Kpop idols rather than actually on them.  The difference is between a fan writing a fanfic on Donghae and Eunhyuk and Eun Hyuk writing a fanfic on Eunhae.  The latter is more credible than the latter even if the words ‘based on’ are used.

    There is the issue of defamation because even if the fanfic is based on a character like me, readers of the fanfic might start believing that I actually engage in such things and with my language teacher no less.  Even though it isn’t true people’s opinion of me might adversely change and as presented in the movie ‘Easy A’ rumours and gossip can be quite hurtful/harmful because people have their moral biases.  In all honesty though, I really don’t think that fans or readers believe in those fanfics or are influenced by them. Or I hope not. The case for defamation would be for the lawyers to battle it out.  The ethical question of inadvertently affecting an idol’s image is something that each person’s morality would have to answer. 

    My second point, and most importantly is that unlike Kpop stars, I am not a public persona but a private individual.  Kpop stars sell an image as much as they sell music.  When I buy a album or single, no matter how many copyright infringement notes are on them, I pretty much feel that I am able to do want I want with it once I have bought it; loan it to a friend or copy it onto my computer.  I see no difference when I ‘buy’ into an image that a Kpop artist is ‘selling.’ Even though you can’t copyright an image, I don’t think it is fair for idols to tell me what I can and can’t do with their personae once I have invested time and energy or loyalty and money. 

    Of course the Kpop idol world sucks; you can’t date (as discussed in the other article this week) you can’t stop people talking or writing about you nor writing fiction based on you.  If you take the legal route here, then I guess it would come under privacy laws.  What things are deemed private or the private property of a Kpop idol? I think you would be hard pressed to put a case forward for personae.  Still, as individuals I think it is a balance between personal boundaries and and maybe a case of entitlement.  Anyhow thanks for the food for thought and now back to being a prude.  Hehe.

  • http://twitter.com/sebsobandsky Sabah

    I am a prude and so I am pretty much against smut etc HOWEVER if I may just put a pin in that part of my character for the moment…

    If my college class mate began writing a raunchy fanfic based on my character (maybe getting it on with my language teacher) I would be weirded out and maybe even offended.  The first point of defence for the writer would be that the character is ‘based’ on me not actually me because of course, they don’t really know the ‘real’ me.  It is an estimation of me which has been exaggerated and at the most my character has been manipulated to tell a story rather than an actual exploitation of my being.  In my opinion this is like Kpop fanfics.  Writers base their protagonists on their ideas, perceptions, estimations of Kpop idols rather than actually on them.  The difference is between a fan writing a fanfic on Donghae and Eunhyuk and Eun Hyuk writing a fanfic on Eunhae.  The latter is more credible than the latter even if the words ‘based on’ are used.

    There is the issue of defamation because even if the fanfic is based on a character like me, readers of the fanfic might start believing that I actually engage in such things and with my language teacher no less.  Even though it isn’t true people’s opinion of me might adversely change and as presented in the movie ‘Easy A’ rumours and gossip can be quite hurtful/harmful because people have their moral biases.  In all honesty though, I really don’t think that fans or readers believe in those fanfics or are influenced by them. Or I hope not. The case for defamation would be for the lawyers to battle it out.  The ethical question of inadvertently affecting an idol’s image is something that each person’s morality would have to answer. 

    My second point, and most importantly is that unlike Kpop stars, I am not a public persona but a private individual.  Kpop stars sell an image as much as they sell music.  When I buy a album or single, no matter how many copyright infringement notes are on them, I pretty much feel that I am able to do want I want with it once I have bought it; loan it to a friend or copy it onto my computer.  I see no difference when I ‘buy’ into an image that a Kpop artist is ‘selling.’ Even though you can’t copyright an image, I don’t think it is fair for idols to tell me what I can and can’t do with their personae once I have invested time and energy or loyalty and money. 

    Of course the Kpop idol world sucks; you can’t date (as discussed in the other article this week) you can’t stop people talking or writing about you nor writing fiction based on you.  If you take the legal route here, then I guess it would come under privacy laws.  What things are deemed private or the private property of a Kpop idol? I think you would be hard pressed to put a case forward for personae.  Still, as individuals I think it is a balance between personal boundaries and and maybe a case of entitlement.  Anyhow thanks for the food for thought and now back to being a prude.  Hehe.

  • sakurahae

    the thing i keep trying to explain to people who get all weirded out about me reading smut about ‘real people’, is that i’m not.

    I’m reading fan fiction about the images the idols portray. The whole idol scene is almost a form of acting, obviously there’s more of the person behind the character that gets mixed in, but at the end of the day, the idols we know and loved have been coached, trained to act the way they do, exaggerate some parts, cut out others….

    When im reading and writing fanfic, I’m not thinking about what, oh say, lee donghae from mokpo is doing right now, i’m thinking about what super junior’s donghae is doing when we aren’t watching, yes?

    and for me that’s two different things.

    after all, the idols image is just another product these companies are selling to us. I don’t pay money for the ~image~ but its usually half of what makes me pay money for their more tangible products, and I can certainly ;buy into’ it, and since they’re putting it out there for the consumers, shouldn’t we be allowed to use it how we want? 

    and before people start telling me how horrified the idols must be about this, im sure they already know. how else does the companies and idols know what fanservice to go for? it may not be their favourite thing ever, but im sure they know about it, and if it was an issue… well im sure the companies would have sued our pants off by now for damaging their idls images or something or another.

    But honestly, the smut gives us satisfaction, and reading fanfic allows us to build up more of the idols image on our own, meaning we buy into the whole thing a little more, which keeps ups attached when the idols put something out for us to pay for.

    I mean. Im happy because i get to enjoy my smut, the companies happy for anything that causes us to stay with their idols a little longer,…. which means more money for our idols? seems like a good thing all around.

    as long as im not shoving it in the idols faces, i dont see the problem with me having my little corner of the internet.

    But thats just me lol. ugh im not sur eif i made any sense here at all. I keep trying to explain this concept to peopel and i can never find teh right words to explain it T_T

  • http://www.facebook.com/kennedy.halstead.3 Kennedy Halstead

    Great article and I especially love this pearl of wisdom: “K-pop is all foreplay and no orgasm”. Preach it, author, preach it!

    This article hits me on many different levels. For one, I’ve been reading and writing fanfiction myself (some of it smutty, yes) since high school, and I’m totally revealing my (advanced) age, but that was when my Korean friends were listening to H.O.T and the first stuff I wrote was shippery goodness between Mulder and Scully. So yeah, I’ve been around fanfic a lot. Second, I’m that girl who buys all those cheesy romance novels with half-dressed men and women clenched in too-tight embraces on the cover, and I love them. All of them. Especially the cheesetastic ones. Thirdly, and most importantly, I love smut. I’ve read…well, more than my fair share, and a lot of it has been atrocious, but some of it has been haunting and thought-provoking, and mighty steamy.

    Here’s the thing though…I used to have hang-ups about real person fic…For me, the squick factor was the fact that I could picture so-and-so person in my head doing whatever the author had written out, and I honestly didn’t want to picture these people doing those things. (I mean, I once saw a fic about two politicians getting it on. That was not my cup of tea, sorry, but to each his/her own). For the longest time, I stayed away from both reading and writing real person fic of any kind. Then my muse came calling and I wrote my first one, and it was outrageously smutastic. I mean, I don’t even *know* where some of the stuff I churned out came from. Well, that solved my problem, hahaha, except, I had this sort of cognitive dissonance about the whole thing. It’s not like I believe in any way that the Kpop idols I wrote about do any of the stuff they did in my fic (if they do, I hope someone calls the police on them!). After much consideration, however, I realize I can look on it as actors playing a part, being part of a movie I’m watching in my brain, and treat it all as a sort of wish fulfillment. As noted by the author and in several of the comments, so much of Kpop is built on fantasy. Thus, to me, fanfiction is just an extension of that fantasy.

    It’s my personal opinion that most fanfiction, whatever the fandom, is some sort of fantasy/wish fulfillment. You want certain characters/people to do a certain something, act a certain way, be in certain situations, and if the canon show/movie/Kpop group doesn’t provide you with that, fanfiction is a way to manifest your fantasy. And yeah, some people fantasize about sexual situations with or between their idols. That’s natural. Sex is a natural part of life. Squick – that’s also natural. What turns on one person will not necessarily turn on another person, just like some people go gaga over certain foods, while others gag at their mere mention.

    That being said, if I stumbled across a story about someone with my name and features doing something horrid, yes, I’d be shocked and probably outraged. Then again, I’m not a celebrity. I am very much of the opinion that as a Kpop idol or anyone in the public eye who MAKES MONEY off the public that there is a implicit contract that you sign – your fame and fortune come in exchange for certain things, such as privacy, the ability to choose your own clothing, decisions about your image, etc. In a nutshell, don’t want people writing smut that involves you getting it on with one of your bandmates? Don’t join a band! Sorry, that just comes with the territory. And maybe the positive spin on this would be, there are people out there (such as myself) who love and admire you so much, and what you do, that we spend days and weeks composing (sometimes lengthy) full-fledged fantasies with you as the star. That’s some dedication, isn’t it?

  • afellowfangirl

    I was just gonna quote you! but someone else already did: “Kpop is all foreplay and no orgasm”

    you know it! 

    I really wanted to write something intellectual, but dang! look at the comments, your readers are the best!
     
    And let’s not forget that one time we were reading smut next to each other

    also cannot get over how good your writing is 

    I made a disqus account just for this, cause i can’t sign in with facebook

    • shannie4888

      LOL…@ u made a disqus account just for this. I had to find my disqus username/password, which I couldn’t remember for over 4 months now, just to post a comment earlier on Seoulbeats. The writers on here always get my brain revved up, and now I’ve finally found the way to tell them what I think. Long live Disqus…….LOL

    • Nabeela

      LOL GUYS THIS IS MY ROOMMATE 

      • Gaya_SB

        Knew it!

        HI NABEELA’S ROOMMATE!!!

      • afellowfangirl

        Ohoho I got a reply from the author! I feel so cool, connections man, i got them

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7MRYDXY5MJ6HSO2EAFQNQV73TM hazel

    OMFG, Holy Nuns of seoulbeat admit to read smut?. Funnyyyyy!!!!! its disgusting and un saintly of you smart classy ladies to be reading such disgusting things. You should be in the kitchen like i am. Serving your Spouses (you never know with people these days{gay Remark}right?) I guess u arent as classy as i thought u guys are. just low class whores. who read about and fantasy whatevers going on to the lead, its you in that girls place. i admit i used to read all those disgusting whoreish things. but i have been reformed and hopefully u find a spouse that can deal with youre ways and helps you change into a right young korean lady. I know you girls have it in you to be classy young girls, this whole article is probably a devilish femenist ideal. i know ur pressured seoulbeats. but bare with it, you dont have to turn into a whore and speak bout such immoral things to get hits. arent u better than this? well i guess youve changed. you play these two images and its sad how the classy, and smart image u held for the this blog is being torn down by whoreish ideals, and articles like this “talk bout Smut?” WHORE. keep such things in the privacy of the bed room harlot. 

  • Gaya_SB

     I’ve heard female bloggers talk about all the sexist troll comments they get all the time, but this is the first time I’m seeing it with my own eyes (I should probably get out more). 

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/7MRYDXY5MJ6HSO2EAFQNQV73TM hazel

      or you could stay in the kitchen and serve all your husbands needs. ;) dont take me so seriously dear. 

      • Gaya_SB

        lol don’t worry, I don’t think I can take anyone who uses “whore” as an insult seriously

      • Gaya_SB

        lol don’t worry, I don’t think I can take anyone who uses “whore” as an insult seriously

  • Nabeela

    i cant be changed into a right young korean lady. i’m not korean. 

  • jeniffer rodrigues

    To me fifty shades is nothing compared to some smut fanfics seriously.

    And like a non-native English speakers that I am. I have to say that reading fanfictions has helped me to improve my English a lot. l learned grammar, vocabulary and slang, amd I still learning

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/7MRYDXY5MJ6HSO2EAFQNQV73TM hazel

      Whores like u wont find any god to let u in his beautiful paradise. Please reform dear. 

    • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

       That’s awesome that it helped you improve your English. As soon as I learn enough Korean, I’m really looking forward to reading Korean fanfics, partly for that reason as well. :)

  • http://twitter.com/fah2ma Fatouma

    Don’t worry, I always remember to make my husband a sandwich just before I read my sinful smut. It all evens out.

  • http://twitter.com/fah2ma Fatouma

     Wait, I don’t think you get how ethnicity works. You can’t become Korean, simple as that.

  • Gaya_SB

    And I look forward to you contributing meaningfully to the conversations occurring therein as well as elsewhere on the site (ie- not call people “whores”)

    And if not, I am going to have to ask you to stop.

  • http://twitter.com/fah2ma Fatouma

     He shouldn’t feel inadequate, he’s in the smut I read :P

  • http://seoulbeats.com Johnelle

    Seoulbeats is more lenient than most K-pop sites, but there is a line and you have already crossed it. You have a right to disagree with the author’s post, but not to disrespect our authors or other commenters.  This is a warning, if you continue to post disrespectful comments you will be banned.

  • http://seoulbeats.com Johnelle

    I’m not angry, I’m real. Unlike a troll who lives to create havoc in their made up life in the cyber world.

  • joonhobong

    I saw the word smut, fanfiction, then this picture of zico and P.O … OMG, what did you do that ?

  • S_bliss

    You disgust me, author. I mean eewww really?! What sort of self respecting person…..

    ….use a macbook?!

  • kahoni

    I’ve reread this article because of the most recent round table. Great topic to write about!

    First, I find it disturbing that aegyo is part of this sex appeal foreplay business. I hope they stop this at one point, preferably very soon.

    Second, everyone should give fanfiction a chance. It’ll help feed your kpop addiction and take it to levels that the Korean public wont let them openly display.

  • Doobidoobidoo

    Thanks for this article !
    Stupidly as it may seem, I fell so less guilty now.
    I just discovered smut fanfics. Some of them are indeed plain disturbing and not really well written, but some of them are really good.

    I would love to have some recommendation from the author or her readers of well-written, “Pulitzer price winning-like” smuts.

    • Gaya_SB

      Anything by Maayacola

  • senskin

    I think Gene Simmons (as a guest judge on American Idol) said it best. All pop music is selling sex to one degree or another. So what? K-pop does it with way more taste than American pop. That’s why I prefer it.