• cancertwin2

    TVXQ are planning to hold a five dome tour in Japan, the first for any Korean group.

    I don’t think that anyone who has been paying attention to the increasing anti-Hallyu sentiment in Japan should be shocked that there will be no Korean acts allowed at Kohaku this year. When TVXQ was first allowed on the show after many years after their debut as a Jpop act it was a massive accomplishment. However with the ease that other Kpop acts were able to come and be apart of something that was supposedly so exclusive and honorable as this event it cheapened everything.

    They feel that they have to do this to get some of that prestige back.
    It was definitely lost last year.

    It’s very sad that a group like TVXQ that has broken so many barriers for Kpop, as a Jpop act may have to suffer for the onslaught of Hallyu or Hanryu in Japan.

    • takasar1

      i am just curious, but why is it that whenever people talk of breaking barriers they never mention BoA who made a much bigger splash than tvxq. not hating or anything but you seem to know quite a bit about the subject, so i thought you could provide an answer.

      thanks in advance

      • cancertwin2

        It’s usually because when Boa promoted in Japan she was seen as an exception. There wasn’t a big emphasis on the fact that she was a Korean (of course her fans  knew she was Korean but there was no emphasis placed on it so she wasn’t promoted as an outsider in the mainstream). A lot of her success was solitary meaning it didn’ t actually start a wave for other Koreans to come in (though many of them tried but were mostly unsuccessful).

        On the contrary with TVXQ, they were promoted as foreigners and their success actually helped open doors for other Koreans (almost as soon as they found success in Japan it became easier for Kpop to flood the Japanese market). Boa’s success wasn’t enough to even help TVXQ in that market. They had to start from scratch, create a new name Tohoshinki and it took them many years before they found their footing there as Jpop stars.

        So when people speak of barriers they speak of the fact that TVXQ’s success sparking an interest in not only them but in Korean musicians. As a Japanese musical director said last year, TVXQ made the Japanese people finally give Koreans a chance. They represented Korean musicians in a way that made them wonder if all the others from their country were as well trained, talented and entertaining (which she said they found out wasn’t actually the case).

        Simply put because TVXQ is regarded as actually having started the Hallyu wave in Japan that actually bore fruit they are credited with breaking barriers and allowing Kpop acts to find success in Japan the way that was once thought to never be possible.

      • kelliusmaximus

        BoA was basically an immediate success in Japan, so even though she’s achieved more than DBSK in Japan the circumstances feel different because DBSK flopped so hard at first. (as well as what cancertwin said)

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/YQ53WK5K4DPXQ5DIBKDELB6WPE Camille

        BoA may have made a bigger and faster splash than Tohoshinki did, but her success didn’t really help other Korean artists’ success in Japan. Hell, even being promoted as BoA’s hoobaes didn’t help Tohoshinki much, especially since BoA’s Korean-ness was never really promoted. Some people didn’t even know BoA was Korean. Tohoshinki was promoted as a foreign Korean group from the start, and they tried so hard to separate themselves from the Hallyu craze that was Yonsama and dramas at the time. Tohoshinki’s success as a group made other groups try out Japan as well, and many of Tohoshinki’s fans were converted into K-pop fans that checked out other Korean groups and supported those groups when they debuted in Japan as well.

  • baby91

    i don’t understand that f a Korean act do not appear on Japanese TV, people are quick to claim that’s because of political tension (maybe don’t know) and call out Japanese people as racist  I’ve never seen a Japanese act appear on Korean TV and if he does, comment will be flooding with non-welcomed response!! just saying that Japanese has the right to put whoever they want on their TV without political motivation

    • cqn0

      Well part of the reason no Japanese acts are on Korean TV is that there’s no money to be made in Korea. So why waste time and money promoting there?

  • http://twitter.com/#!/shahirashera Shahirashera

    And maybe, in addition Japanese really has lose that much interest in Hallyu in general. Although I might not watch both sides closely but from what I can tell, Hallyu isnt as hype up as last year in Japan.

  • takasar1

    i think that the main problem is that no korean group has achieved household name status. tvxq are probably closest to achieving this but the other korean groups occupy a specific niche within the teenage demographic (even kara and snsd). IMO, this one of the main reasons why the hallyu wave will falter, there is no staying power being demonstrated by  any group whatsoever. when a wave usually moves away from the epicenter (be it a wave of people[think migration or military invasion]) it leaves behind traces of its impact, this hallyu wave is doing nothing of the sort.

     japan’s music industry cannot be compared to korea’s. people often forget that a music market is in fact…a market! the whole aim is to make money, japan can make enough of that at home, korea cannot. i agree, if (a big ‘if’) the demographics continue to look so bad then there will be problems for the future. but the exact same can be said for korea. if companies continue to make stupid decisions (JYP 2008), then this “wave” (more of a ripple) will fizzle out very quickly. another great example is the fixation that these companies seem to have now with regards to breaking into the american music market. WHY?!?!?!? i ask, banging my head on a table, are you attempting something so stupid! why go westwards when you have achieved nothing notable and long-lasting closer to home? NO kpop artist will make it in the west, psy is not a kpop artist and even he will (probability dictates) end up as a one hit wonder. surely a better long-term alternative would be to attempt to feast off of the growing 1 billion plus Chinese upper/middle classes. a very good case can be argued for the hallyu wave being built on even more unstable foundations than the Japanese music industry.

    with regards to economy, politics and power; the korean economy can never hope to match japans. a lot is made of the japanese economy’s apparent decline, much of it self-imposed (the imbeciles). still, korea whilst experiencing a quicker GDP growth, will most likely never catch up, it will most possibly experience saturation quite soon. many arguments can be made for japan’s reluctance to engage in free trade with some powerful nations but there are plenty of valid reasons for this aside from mere protectionism. if you look at the stagnation of the U.S economy and the rapid disintegration of the EU’s economy, the importance of avoiding entanglement in that mess can be seen quite quickly. i have never been to japan yet i think that most can agree that japan, throughout the last 150 years, has had both an inferiority complex and a superiority complex. whilst dreaming of equality with the west, it sees itself as vastly superior to its neighbors. of course recent korean successes will not exactly please the nationalists but bigger problems do exist.

    • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

      Are DBSK really not household names yet? :(

      Anyways, I think it’s incorrect to say the Korean economy can never match Japan’s. Japan has been declining and their retirement rate is so high. The Korean economy is the fastest growing in the world. I’m not saying that Korea is in prime position to overtake Japan right now, but if things continue as they have, Korea will eventually catch up to Japan.

      • Kamisama

        You know what’s funny
        Both Japanese and Korean economy are declining as we speak

      • takasar1

        the korean economy is nowhere near the fastest growing economy in the world (GDP growth is 3.9% in korea, China, a country which has apparently hit a bit of a ‘slump’ recently is growing at 7.7%). my reasons for my statement regarding korea never matching japan’s economy:

        1) korea is smaller and lacks resources (even more lacking than japan in this regard)

        2) the korean population is reaching a similar point in the demographic curve as japans (it is also aging)

        3) if samsung goes bust, korea goes bust. korea is too reliant on one or two of its big companies

        4) if america’s economy flatlines, korea will be hit just as hard as japan.

        5) south koreans always have the uncertain shadow of the north hanging over them. politics can affect the economy negatively in more ways than i can list. plus the korean economy is not as efficient as the japanese economy was/is.

        tvxq are as close to ‘household’ as a korean act can get in japan. they are probably in the top 5 boy groups as of this moment (considering their last 4 albums went something along the lines of: platinum, platinum, double platinum, platinum). SM should quickly realise that they should push tvxq as hard as they can in the japanese market and achieve maximum success that way, forget about korea, there is nothing left for a group like them to achieve there anyways.

      • takasar1

        the korean economy is nowhere near the fastest growing economy in the world (GDP growth is 3.9% in korea, China, a country which has apparently hit a bit of a ‘slump’ recently is growing at 7.7%). my reasons for my statement regarding korea never matching japan’s economy:

        1) korea is smaller and lacks resources (even more lacking than japan in this regard)

        2) the korean population is reaching a similar point in the demographic curve as japans (it is also aging)

        3) if samsung goes bust, korea goes bust. korea is too reliant on one or two of its big companies

        4) if america’s economy flatlines, korea will be hit just as hard as japan.

        5) south koreans always have the uncertain shadow of the north hanging over them. politics can affect the economy negatively in more ways than i can list. plus the korean economy is not as efficient as the japanese economy was/is.

        tvxq are as close to ‘household’ as a korean act can get in japan. they are probably in the top 5 boy groups as of this moment (considering their last 4 albums went something along the lines of: platinum, platinum, double platinum, platinum). SM should quickly realise that they should push tvxq as hard as they can in the japanese market and achieve maximum success that way, forget about korea, there is nothing left for a group like them to achieve there anyways.

        • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

          Is BoA household in Japan? I thought she was. 

          • takasar1

            BoA is a different subject altogether. she is not as active in japan as she once was. although her popularity at its peak (2006) was probably equal or just below that of the 4 queens of jpop (hamasaki, utada, amuro, kumi)

          • Haibara Christie

            You know, BoA is finally having her FIRST solo concert in Korea, not second, not third, but FIRST concert this year. She has had anywhere from 11-13 concerts in Japan so far, which shows how engrained she was in the Japanese Music Industry.  I really want her to go back. She was doing great things there, and she’s at that point where what she does doesn’t really matter as long as she’s growing as an artist, and that started with “Only One.”

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/YQ53WK5K4DPXQ5DIBKDELB6WPE Camille

          THIS. While I loooooove seeing Yunho and Changmin in Korean variety shows, as well as performing in music shows, there’s really nothing else left to achieve. They’ve gotten Daesangs already early on in their careers, something most artists can only even dream of. They sell out their concerts fast, regardless of how long they’ve been gone in Korea. Their fanbase is still strong and ridiculously large, even after everything they (group and fans) have been through. They’ve achieved everything already. Same can be said BoA. Everything they’re doing Korea right now is just fanservice and something to extend their Korean celeb careers. Nothing left for them to achieve or prove at this point.

          • takasar1

            if SM cared at all about tvxq’s legacy then they would ‘lease’ them to avex (is avex their japanese label?) for a while and have them stay in japan for the next 2-3 years. if amongst their next four japanese albums, they have a double platinum seller and a triple platinum seller (at the very least), then you could make a very good argument for pushing them into the top3, just below arashi and exile. is it possible for them to achieve sales like this? only if SM really lets them go for it. their korean promotions are crap anyway. their last two songs/albums had me cringing. they both were shot in probably the same room, had changmin screaming the title of the song in the chorus and overall, screamed of mediocrity. it seems like SM is confident about the position that Shinee and exo are in to the point where they will just milk suju and now (apparently) tvxq for money. tvxq need to change their names officially to Tohonoshinki, go to japan constantly and eventually stay there like they were between 2006-2009. additionally, SM needs to ignore a couple of rabid korean fangirls and pay attention to what is most important: richer japanese rabid fangirls!

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/YQ53WK5K4DPXQ5DIBKDELB6WPE Camille

            True, but Yunho’s already 27 next year, and can be called up for military enlistment any time now, so I don’t think he and Changmin can drop everything and stay in Japan for long periods of time like they used to.

          • takasar1

            they only need 3-4 years. i am sure, considering how old rain and leeteuk were when they enlisted, that he can put it off. it is never going to be easy but if SM cares and they care enough (really unlikely) than it is possible

          • Haibara Christie

            I LOVE THIS IDEA. But I think that Yunho and Changmin should enlist immediately, (just like rumors are saying right now) And then leave Korea altogether and promote in Japan.  DBSK is done in Korea, and they should leave their legacy there as sparkling as possible. (Which is why I’m happy that JYJ has limited promotion, which helps them establish an identity as a group independent of the true idol system and a new niche for themselves outside of their DBSK selves.) I don’t want it to go down the drain the way it is going right now. With amazing Japanese producers, I think they have a shot at being truly great. They were headed on the right track right before the lawsuit, and with how the duo has improved vocally over these last few years, I think that they can hop back on that train. They just need time, and less influence from KCassies and SM Ent.  SM is not dependent of TVXQ for revenue, so they should now finally let Changmin and Yunho be artists they way BoA is starting to become. SM NEEDS to let BoA and TVXQ go–they’re old, and they need some time for real introspection.

  • UncleFan

    I won’t pretend to know all the gritty details of the history between these two countries, but I do know this: every time I read an article about Korea and Japan squabbling over those tiny islands or the “right” way to eat ramen, I’m reminded of Rihanna and Chris Brown… these two *deserve* each other!

  • escaflowne

    ” For Korean groups to compete in the physical media market, they have to both establish personal connections between fans and individual members, and commit to doing long promotions. …………….. Such an extensive PR campaign is difficult for artists that simultaneously produce singles for Korean, Japanese, and American markets.”
    — of course, and that was how the general Japanese public came to know BOA and TOHOSHINKI. They sacrificed their fame in KR(to the point where some of their fans complained abt being neglected since they were focusing more on Japan), started from scratch(just like any newbie) and worked their way to succeed in the Jpop music industry. None of the current Kpop hallyu artists experienced the hardships those 2 performers were able to overcome.

    Not just Koreans, even Japanese acts had to do long promotions, some even longer. Thats how it is. If they cant keep up, then dont enter the industry.

    • http://hummingbadmarkz.wordpress.com/ badmarkz

      exactly! this is also what happened to ft island during their rookie year. they have gained a huge popularity from their debut in korea, just to leave it and pursue life as an indie band in japan. it’s always become a hot topic discussion among primadonnas that their life in japan wasn’t easy. even so, the weren’t doing it for nothing. they have gained such a strong musical ability and even able to write their own songs in japan. in my opinion, their japanese releases are waaay better than their korean ones. i think it’s also helps that japanese music industry is much more diverse than koreans, where band music and live performances are generally well-appreciated.
      but i’m getting out of topic. my point is, even though kpop fans may wonder why korean artists are willing to go to such an extent in promoting themselves in japan, i think it’s actually very benefiting for them.

    • http://hummingbadmarkz.wordpress.com/ badmarkz

      exactly! this is also what happened to ft island during their rookie year. they have gained a huge popularity from their debut in korea, just to leave it and pursue life as an indie band in japan. it’s always become a hot topic discussion among primadonnas that their life in japan wasn’t easy. even so, the weren’t doing it for nothing. they have gained such a strong musical ability and even able to write their own songs in japan. in my opinion, their japanese releases are waaay better than their korean ones. i think it’s also helps that japanese music industry is much more diverse than koreans, where band music and live performances are generally well-appreciated.
      but i’m getting out of topic. my point is, even though kpop fans may wonder why korean artists are willing to go to such an extent in promoting themselves in japan, i think it’s actually very benefiting for them.

      • Haibara Christie

        Going to Japan has changed the musicality of so many groups.  DBSK for one went from meh/average to amazing just because of the Japanese. SNSD turned a leaf with their 1st Japanese Album. Kara has grown from a one hit wonder to being important in Kpop, SHINee is growing in terms of musicality in directions they aren’t exactly used to, CNBlue made their name there, and FTIsland has expanded their horizons in ways they couldn’t have in Korea.  To be honest, every group should undergo Japanese scrutiny.  I’m sad that WG didn’t take advantage of Japan when they could have and instead attempted to bite at the US Market, which is even more unforgiving and categorizing.     

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2UNQGN7IPNTIRIWBNVHEFBHHV4 a z

    All i have to say is F***ing good article!! I read every word of it and while i don’t know enough about the Japanese music market to comment i just wanted to let you know this is one of, if not the best article i have read on SB to date. 

  • chobbling

    You have written a very long and thorough article and it was a good read. But one thing that you have ignored is that J-pop is a genre that is widely accepted worldwide; sometimes much more than K-pop. Why do I know this? I am active in both sides of the Anime/J-pop and Kdrama/K-pop scenes and with experience, I can tell that many K-pop fans choose to ignorant and coop themselves up in their own little world, believing that anything Korean makes up most of the Asian market. That is incorrect when you have opened up. 

    The amount of fans there are internationally for J-pop and anime is astounding. Would K-pop be able to hold fan-gatherings or ‘conventions’ of over 100,000 people multiple times, in multiple cities, year after year in the US; all over the world? Does it really hold that much popularity? Just how large is the male fanbase when compared to the J-pop? 

    These conventions keep getting larger and larger and the reality of it all is that it has already taken over most cities of the world; making ‘K-pop getting recognition in Europe’ a joke.

    I have nothing against K-pop, I love it and I would not be here if I didn’t. Japanese culture has always had a strong hold of asians AND westerners living abroad. While Korean visuals is what people aspire to have, it is the lifestyle and diverse culture of Japan that really captivates us.

    • wickfan

      i remember kpop fans told me only kpop tour overseas japanese artist been touring overseas for years. i seen dir en grey and they actually know what is a world tour

      • Black_winds

        But you can’t compare metal band with pop groups (and especially DEG because they are liked even amongst people who don’t give a half shit about Japan and their culture.Like it is with 99% of other j-rock whatever groups.).Sure,j-rock bands are doing European tours all the time (this year it has been quite silent though)…but how many j-pop idols are doing tours like k-pop idols are doing?well…

        • wickfan

          I have friends that stated they hate all japanese music and linked it all to being akb48. Well Johnny groups are doing some Asian tours and they sell really well even without promotion. Perfume went on a Asian tour. Namie is doing Asian tour next year also. Jin tour across the US.

        • wickfan

          I have friends that stated they hate all japanese music and linked it all to being akb48. Well Johnny groups are doing some Asian tours and they sell really well even without promotion. Perfume went on a Asian tour. Namie is doing Asian tour next year also. Jin tour across the US.

      • G__ML

        To be quite honest i’ve been noticing that even japanese artists who don’t tour/promote overseas are generally more popular on the international market than korean artists (even though kpop popularity have been growing a lot). Where I live, for exemple, jpop/rock is way more relevant than kpop. In my school a know a whole bunch of people who are into Jpop while there are only about 2 Kpop fans (me included). Even those who don’t like neither know more about japanese singers than korean singers, especially girl groups. At least they know who AKB48 are, but when it comes to k-groups they are like “SNSwho?” (which hurts my SONE heart lol). Truth is, even though PSY is pretty popular right now, Kmusic is not as popular as Jmusic outise asian countries (mostly because of the whole anime fever, imo). Its popularity has been growing, but it will take a while to achieve the J-music sucess (if it ever reaches it).

    • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

      While I agree with your point about Japan, I think it was a little out of line to say that the only thing about Korea people are interested in are the visuals.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nate-Broadus/100003245734823 Nate Broadus

        He wasn’t out of line. If you push your agenda, whatever it may be, with a superficial spearhead at the end, you cannot expect but to have the average person take the cover for the whole book. It would be illogical to expect any other outcome.

        The truth is, Korean culture absolutely does have incredible depth. There are many more layers to it than is shown in your average Kpop product — which kind of makes me shake my head when I see Korea using it as its most visible aspect toward forging a true global identity. 

        Instead of grafting western culture onto Korea’s face as its visage moving forward onto the world stage, I would love to see more facets of Korean culture applied. That way, Korea’s global identity would be something created of its own palette and not just a refurbished, repackaged version julienned off the world dish. There are dozens upon dozens of things they could use to make this possible. It puzzles me why they don’t seem to make more of an effort to showcase their own homegrown cultural creations.

    • toshimon

      THIS.EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS.

      Your point about conventions is very true.
      I’ve been to one, and it is massive.

    • cqn0

      Yeah, anime is so mainstream in Western youth culture that we don’t even really think about it anymore. Hell, anime was airing on prime time on Cartoon Network in the 90s! There are anime conventions all over America, even in what you’d consider “flyover country”, and watching anime fansubs is perfectly normal among Western youth nowadays.

      • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

         I would not call anime mainstream in the US. (admittedly, I haven’t been a youth for a little while though). People are perfectly fine with watching the Cartoon Network, but it seems like a lot of people are still allergic to the idea of having to read subs on a video. Those who go to anime conventions are still seen as “weird” or “slightly different”, certainly not normal. I know plenty of friends who have to hide that they like anime and go to conventions, because if a boss or potential employer found out, they would bring it up as a reason not to hire them, because those kinds of people might bring their “weirdness” into work. I would say anime is still pretty popular, but it’s an underground thing, not part of the mainstream.

        • toshimon

          What a crappy argument this is. People going to anime cons are weird?  Yea sure. As if being fans to K-Pop is not weird itself. Get a grip mate.

          • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

             I’m not sure what your comment is supposed to mean. Are you saying that I shouldn’t be calling anime cons weird because K-pop is also weird? You’re right, I shouldn’t, and that is not what I did at all. What I said is that in all the places I have lived in, those who attend anime conventions and do the whole dressing up thing are largely viewed as weird, not mainstream. I don’t agree with that sentiment at all, but in my experiences in life this is the viewpoint a lot of people hold.

          • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

             I’m not sure what your comment is supposed to mean. Are you saying that I shouldn’t be calling anime cons weird because K-pop is also weird? You’re right, I shouldn’t, and that is not what I did at all. What I said is that in all the places I have lived in, those who attend anime conventions and do the whole dressing up thing are largely viewed as weird, not mainstream. I don’t agree with that sentiment at all, but in my experiences in life this is the viewpoint a lot of people hold.

          • toshimon

            I understand your effort to uphold K-Pop,but everything has a limit. One of the reasons I despise some part of K-Pop is the over-obsessive fans they have. What a bloody joke,it’s entertainment not a cult or something.

          • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

             I still don’t understand you. I wasn’t even originally talking about K-pop. But that’s alright, I’ll just take you as one of those over-obsessive, over-defensive type of fans.

    • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

       Anime is/was pretty popular in the US underground, and by extension J-pop, back when I was into watching anime. Maybe it’s just a product of growing older, but it seems to me that J-pop is bleeding fans, while K-pop is increasing in the overall amount of fans. One trend is falling while the other is slowly rising. A lot of people I know that used to watch anime don’t watch it as much, and certainly don’t spend the ridiculous amounts of money Japan wants them to spend on their products anymore. A lot of what they do watch is illegally uploaded videos on the internet, which Japan makes no money off of. I don’t know enough to tell, but maybe anime/J-pop is still more popular worldwide than K-pop. However I think K-pop is catching up pretty quickly in the amount of profit they are able to make off their foreign fans. K-pop is also starting to have successful conventions, which isn’t too bad considering the international boom for K-pop was only what, several years ago? When was the boom, with the rise of DBSK?

      tldr; K-pop is rising enough in popularity that it can start to compete with J-pop worldwide. Who knows, maybe this is another reason for all the tension between Japanese entertainment sectors and the K-pop idols.

    • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

       Anime is/was pretty popular in the US underground, and by extension J-pop, back when I was into watching anime. Maybe it’s just a product of growing older, but it seems to me that J-pop is bleeding fans, while K-pop is increasing in the overall amount of fans. One trend is falling while the other is slowly rising. A lot of people I know that used to watch anime don’t watch it as much, and certainly don’t spend the ridiculous amounts of money Japan wants them to spend on their products anymore. A lot of what they do watch is illegally uploaded videos on the internet, which Japan makes no money off of. I don’t know enough to tell, but maybe anime/J-pop is still more popular worldwide than K-pop. However I think K-pop is catching up pretty quickly in the amount of profit they are able to make off their foreign fans. K-pop is also starting to have successful conventions, which isn’t too bad considering the international boom for K-pop was only what, several years ago? When was the boom, with the rise of DBSK?

      tldr; K-pop is rising enough in popularity that it can start to compete with J-pop worldwide. Who knows, maybe this is another reason for all the tension between Japanese entertainment sectors and the K-pop idols.

  • kelliusmaximus

    Well, as a DBSK fan, I’m annoyed. There was a Japanese article (a tabloid so I take it with a grain of salt, but it makes sense) that stated that although DBSK are popular and get high ratings, they have to be included in the blanket Hallyu ban to avoid drama. It feels incredibly unfair, Kohaku is very meaningful to them and they’re missing out because of issues unrelated to them. 
     
    Also, “DBSK, while still achieving sales records enviable for most J-Pop groups, have been unable their 2009-2011 sales record where every single sold over 200k.”
     
    This is pretty irrelevant and inaccurate, I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply. Their sales have been stable or increasing, and consistent with if not better than their pre split sales. 2009 sales were inflated at the end of the year because of the impending split, Bigeast were buying like crazy to try prevent it. And the high sales at the start of 2011 were only for KYHD, obviously because it was their first single.

    • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

      I wouldn’t say it’s inaccurate; irrelevant or expected or explainable would be better descriptors, imo. But otherwise I definitely agree that DBSK’s sales have been pretty consistent. 

      • kelliusmaximus

        It is inaccurate to say that all their singles in 2009 and 2011 sold over 200k, that’s completely untrue.

    • Kamisama

       Dear, not this year
      TVXQ didn’t sold as much

      • kelliusmaximus

        I said that their singles sales were inflated at the start of the year. KYHD sold an excessive amount, after that the sales became more stable and consistent. 185k for Superstar but 153k for Winterose, then 160k for Still and 175k for Android. It’s pretty even.

        • ChocorateitoDisuko

          how bout presence in general?

    • Haibara Christie

      Overall, I would expect lower sales to be true simply because there were more fans when Tohoshinki was 5.  Now that they have reached a high status in Japan, their sales tend to be higher than at the beginning, but not necessarily as high as they were at the time of the split, when their albums sold like crazy due to split fears.  Their Best Selection 2010 album was actually number 7 at the end of the year, their highest performance yet.  That’s huge for them, since it defines them as Japanese artists, not just Korean artists who release stuff in Japanese (basically everyone else in Japan right now besides the aforementioned three.) But the important fact is that even after the split, they’re able to maintain large volumes of sales in the 100Ks, but author is saying that the decrease is larger than expected because of animosity towards Hallyu, and not Tohoshinki the duo.  In other words, she’s saying that even the big names are taking a hit, despite their respected status.

      I am of the camp that supports their full group works more–not because I’m some OT5 who thinks that they’re not anything without each other, but because I’m someone who respected the music more as 5 than as 3 or 2, so take what I say however you wish. Now that’s out of the way, if you’re suggesting that the author is shoving OT5 down your throat and are offending the current TVXQ, then I would just like to say that you’re reading into it too much.

      • kelliusmaximus

        >Overall, I would expect lower sales to be true simply because there were more fans when Tohoshinki was 5
        Uh, but it’s not true. The sales are higher on average and Bigeast membership has grown. You can’t just expect or assume, they have more fans than when they were 5 in Japan. They lost fans, yes, but Japan was never as attached to 5 member THSK as Korea was so they managed to continue on the same growth trajectory and get new ones.
        > In other words, she’s saying that even the big names are taking a hit, despite their respected status.
        Except the hallyu backlash hasn’t affected them (or other boybands), they haven’t taken a hit at all. 2pm. Shinee, etc, are all doing well because fandoms don’t care about political tension or anything like that.
        >then I would just like to say that you’re reading into it too much.
        I specifically said that I’m not sure what they’re trying to imply, and all I was saying is that it’s not true their sales are taking a hit, and that it’s completely wrong that every single sold over 200k in 2009 and 2011. Only 3 did at the end of 09, and KYHD at the start of 2011.

        • Haibara Christie

          1. I never said that there were more or less fans in Big East, just that I would just expect some sort of drop within simply because of logistics. There are going to be fans who left for JYJ, some who left just because of age (TBH, that would be the best time to leave) and others who are disillusioned with the group as a whole as I am (not very many, but there are). Younger fans coming in are less likely due to zero promotion. Even Yunho said that he heard kids these days say “DBSK, who?” when asked about them. As you were saying yourself, there were people who bought a lot of their music during break up because of the idea that the group may be gone forever, and after the huge comeback. So why does that matter? Sales would naturally drop to a base number after the emotional high (as you said.)  The actual numbers are what they are because the influx out was about as fast as the influx in after the official break-up [about 150,000 copies before and after] Another interesting trend is that there sales are now front loaded tremendously, which leads me to wonder if there is greater organized fan influence than before in Japan.

          You can look here for pretty complete info: http://www.generasia.com/wiki/Tohoshinki

          2. All I said was my interpretation of what the author was trying to comment about, not my own opinion about the topic. So saying that my statement is wrong doesn’t make much sense. And if they are not affected by the backlash, why are they still banned? Even if it’s not the numbers, its unfair to state that the author can’t make the connection between the numbers and the banning because it IS a correlation one could make if you compare KYHD sales and all future Tohoshinki Sales. Not necessarily a causation, but a correlation. However, I do agree with you on the fact that fandoms don’t tend to think about politics, and that your speculations are more likely to be true than Sophie’s.

          3. The sales that broke 200,000 started at the end of 2009 with Stand By U through 2011′s KYHD (They released stuff as 5 in 2010) which followed the general upward trend of Tohoshinki single sales seen since the beginning.  Then there was a drop right after to 160,000 range…so why would that be? The author thinks it’s the animosity related to the islands and other things, and that’s an opinion that she’s entitled to have. I hold the same opinion as you (the “comeback” sales helped them) but that doesn’t make the author “irrelevant and inaccurate.” Your statement of “stable or increasing” (stable yes, increasing, no.) is just as untrue as hers about the “high sales in 2009-2011,” (2009, no. 2010, yes. 2011, yes.) but that doesn’t make her or you irrelevant or entirely inaccurate. She was referring to Post-Lawsuit to 2011, and you were really focusing on the stability part, not the increase in sales.

          Hopefully that clarifies what I was saying earlier. And if I offended you by saying that you are overreading the author’s statement, then I sincerely apologize, because I must of overread what you were saying instead.

  • mia alban

    Great article!

  • Sophia

    I can’t say i’m too surprised, i’ve visited Japan this time last year and i have to say the country is unsually insular. Its hard to explain, but just general attitude seem to suggest they are slightly less inclusive to outsiders….i.e. not anyone or anything not japanese. 

    Now i’m not suggesting they are a racist nation that will chase you down with a pitch fork if you are not Japanese or anything, actually personally i found the Japanese to be the loveliest, politest & most extraordinary people i’ve ever ever met! Just that they are happy to support & reply on themselves i remember my japanese room mate said to me when i asked if he liked k-pop “he said, no, i think that we should support our own artists in Japan and not others” – And that was the general tone my whole trip ” Japanese, buy japanese”

    • Kamisama

       yep, your friend represents the whole country

      • Sophia

        I never said the represented he whole country – i said that was the general impression that i got whilst i was out there – i just mentioned that one person’s comment.

    • http://twitter.com/dds87 dechen

       haha..i’ve had the same experience with 2 of my Korean friends.l. They just refuse to shop at Uniqlo and Muji..lolsxx

    • http://twitter.com/dds87 dechen

       haha..i’ve had the same experience with 2 of my Korean friends.l. They just refuse to shop at Uniqlo and Muji..lolsxx

    • Kamisama

       Oh also
      tell your friend to boycott anything from China also

  • http://twitter.com/Plutonium22 Plutonium

    The decline of KPOP in Japan is troubling.

    • cqn0

      Not least because Japan is a big source of revenue. Without Japan, you’re going to see a big cutback in budgets.

  • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

    TVXQ also has a Dome Tour next spring. That’s exciting. :P

    I think you said it all, though. It’s was nice to read this very informative article, thank you. ^_^

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/R5BKARJWK7NNOXYOIUSP76YJW4 Aj

    I enjoyed reading this one.I was kind of expecting Jang Geun Suk to be mentioned at least but theres none of him, Amazed at that 80.8%!!! that’s a whole lot, I can just imagine how dependent Kpop is to the Japanese market.SM could be right in focusing his attention to China, but then even some Mando pop artists have been spurring up sentiments on the popularity of Kpop in the Chinese speaking countries.
    I’m a little hurt as a fan that Tohoshinki is not going to be in Kohaku but well they can still sold out their dome/arena tours in Japan anyway.

    • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

       I think no matter where K-pop goes internationally there will be anti-Korean sentiments. K-pop’s popularity means less money for the domestic acts, and most people aren’t kind enough to let that go.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/R5BKARJWK7NNOXYOIUSP76YJW4 Aj

        right and I find it silly sometimes when western music and musicians weren’t being viewed in the same way as much.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/R5BKARJWK7NNOXYOIUSP76YJW4 Aj

        right and I find it silly sometimes when western music and musicians weren’t being viewed in the same way as much.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/R5BKARJWK7NNOXYOIUSP76YJW4 Aj

        right and I find it silly sometimes when western music and musicians weren’t being viewed in the same way as much.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/R5BKARJWK7NNOXYOIUSP76YJW4 Aj

        right and I find it silly sometimes when western music and musicians weren’t being viewed in the same way as much.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/R5BKARJWK7NNOXYOIUSP76YJW4 Aj

        right and I find it silly sometimes when western music and musicians weren’t being viewed in the same way as much.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/R5BKARJWK7NNOXYOIUSP76YJW4 Aj

        right and I find it silly sometimes when western music and musicians weren’t being viewed in the same way as much.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/R5BKARJWK7NNOXYOIUSP76YJW4 Aj

        right and I find it silly sometimes when western music and musicians weren’t being viewed in the same way as much.

  • toshimon

    I think the general idea is K-Pop will not last long. At least in the idol department. While I agree with the fact that the Koreans are trying hard to seek foreign fan bases, Japan are doing the same thing. Well not voluntarily that is. They don’t do fan meeting and concerts that often like their Korean counterparts. Their entertainment has a way to find itself a market, and concentrating only on their niche, which the Koreans could learn rather than hopelessly trying to break the US market (excluding PSY). Japan music have quite a large fan base, thanks to the fact that Japan is the first ‘cool’ thing to come out of Asia. A lot of my friends are originally a J-Pop fans, but with the emergence of K-Pop, most of them moved on from J-Pop. However, they still agree that J-Pop is still relevant. Just that K-Pop is the ‘IT’ thing right now.

    • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

       I think “not long” could actually last quit a while, depending on how much of a foothold they manage to establish in foreign countries in the next few years. I can already see Korea growing weary of idols, but like this article said K-pop isn’t even getting most of their profit from Korean sales, but international sales (aka Japan). So if they can successfully establish a strong foothold in Japan I think they could last a while.

      • toshimon

        But can they?
        The end is near…

  • http://twitter.com/eliyshas Eliysha C. Saputra

    Interesting that 2PM wasn’t mentioned at all, seeing that their popularity in Japan is growing quite well with the release of Masquerade. I believe that Masquerade’s sales were/are much better than KARA’s and SNSD’s latest Japanese releases. So… I’m not sure. Just throwing it out there lol.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/YQ53WK5K4DPXQ5DIBKDELB6WPE Camille

      No matter the success of 2PM or SHINee, they don’t have the success that Tohoshinki, SNSD, and Kara have had. Really, no one is surprised 2PM isn’t invited to Kouhaku, while many are questioning the reasoning why the other 3 weren’t invited.

      • http://twitter.com/eliyshas Eliysha C. Saputra

        Gotchaaa~ Thanks for clearing that up ^^

      • ChocorateitoDisuko

        probably because 2pm sold well with their marketing
        Also Kohaku is about persence in general

      • ChocorateitoDisuko

        probably because 2pm sold well with their marketing
        Also Kohaku is about persence in general

      • ChocorateitoDisuko

        probably because 2pm sold well with their marketing
        Also Kohaku is about persence in general

      • ChocorateitoDisuko

        probably because 2pm sold well with their marketing
        Also Kohaku is about persence in general

  • Random SNSD Fan

    – SNSD’s first week sales for FLOWER POWER (released 11/21) were 29,065, 12,000 down from “Paparazzi’s” first week. –

    Just a little correction, i thinks what you mean is Flower Power is 12,000 down from Oh! single’s first week sales…not Paparazzi… if i’m not mistaken Paparazzi’s first week is more than 90,000

  • ThatsVeryFunny

    “SNSD’s first week sales for FLOWER POWER (released 11/21) were 29,065, 12,000 down from “Paparazzi’s” first week”
    They were  >12K down from Paparazzi’s first DAY. :(

  • taequila777

    Very informative read, thank you.

  • taequila777

    Very informative read, thank you.

  • taequila777

    Very informative read, thank you.

  • LeonidasZ

    Very nice article as expected, but there are just a few things I would like to point out.

    Kohaku has been on a decline for years already and it is no longer as prestigious as it used to be just like how appearing on Music Station or performing at Tokyo Dome isn’t as significant or hard to do as it used to a decade ago. 

    Moreover, I find it interesting that you did not mention how it is not just Korean singers who weren’t invited, but rather there is not a single international act included in the line-up. 
    I think this is worth mentioning because even Malaysian singer Che’nelle, whose album sold over a million copies this year and who’s one of Japan’s most loved singers at the moment, was also not invited to perform and certainly Japan isn’t in a dispute with Malaysia. 
    Perhaps the committee’s intention wasn’t to make it a Kohaku without Koreans but a Japanese-only Kohaku. 

    Lastly, I have to agree with the person below, who said that it’s erroneous for people to assume that J-Pop is no longer popular among int’l fans. I’ve been listening to K-Pop and J-Pop for almost 12 years and while I have only encountered 2 fans of Korean music in real life in all these years, I’ve found more than a dozen of Japanese music, especially over the last four years that I’ve been in college. The thing is, they are all in their 20s and definitely not as vocal, active, or invested as K-Pop fans are. 

    The way I see it, J-Pop’s fanbase is just too widespread to know exactly how many people are in it and especially because many of them tend to lean towards different genres. While some like game music, others only listen to reggae, rock, pop, house or uban.

    • http://twitter.com/babycokes K-popping Dem Pills

      What Chen’elle as in I fell in love with the DJ singer? Damn that song was even popular in the UK!!

  • http://dvqd92.tumblr.com/ Elizabeth

    great article :)

  • ersby

    A very good article. I spent a good fifteen minutes typing a reply, but then I realised I’d just repeated what the article had said in the first place!

  • silverzero

    Another problem with the Korean music industry is how little Korean artists make! People just paying tiny amounts to stream music…and then western songs are priced higher than korean songs. The price value of music should be higher so artistry can prevail in addition to (not instead of) marketability.