• memo soto

    I’m thankful for the 2008′ Black Ocean, cause today that makes me appreciate more the size of the Pink Ocean, which  for me is one of the biggest oceans EVER.

    • swinter101

      No its not there is Big Bang,Shinhwa, HOT,TVXQ(5). Ur kind of comment is the reason why they did it in 2008.

      • KrisMyStar

        Hence the words “one of the biggest oceans”. Please read others’ comments carefully before making such stupid remarks.

      • http://twitter.com/amionne92 Ami-ah

        Did you read her statement properly? She said ONE of the biggest oceans ever, not THE biggest.

  • http://profiles.google.com/jcho49 J Cho

    Feel like most of these protests are done by sad little girls who desperately needs lives.

  • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

    As a Cassie, CARTEL is the most embarrassing thing in the history of the fandom. And honestly, Cassies can be pretty radical, so that’s a actually saying something. But, yeah, black oceans are just mean. That’s all there is to it. Mean, obsessive fans who need to stop being jealous of success. :/

  • http://www.m-rated.tumblr.com/ Michelle Chin

    I didn’t pay much attention to black oceans (probably I didn’t hear a lot about it?) but I certainly did hear a lot about the SNSD one. 

    Upon reading this article, I like to think of the black ocean as a different kind of fanwar in which fandoms or anti-fans lash upon fans of that particular idol group due to their insolent behavior. One may think that this concept of “insolent fandoms” is ridiculous (TBH, I think it is) but we’ve probably come across this loads on Tumblr where some people stereotype members of a certain idol or idol group, making it easier to justify a certain act that can be considered irrational or extreme i.e. a black ocean. Sometimes, I feel that this whole “X fandom is Y” thing is a straw man for anything irrational!

    And this stereotyping is pretty harmful. I remember people saying that the EXO fandom is filled with ridiculousness but I’m pretty sure it’s just the edges of the overused bell curve. However, the sad thing is, it’s the loudest in the lot that speaks the most, giving other more casual or passive fans unwanted bad rep too. :( 

    But of course, it’s not the fanclub that gets scarred the most from such incidents. It’s usually the idols who are probably clueless with what’s going on. They probably don’t even know that their fandoms have such social dynamics to begin with! I An idol probably thinks that if you have fans, then they must love you and if you have anti-fans, it can only mean otherwise and for non-fans, they probably don’t give two damns about your existence.

    I can imagine how horrifying must it be for idols to receive such punishment in the form of non-attentiveness in concerts – it’s equivalent to receiving no applauses after you’ve finished a piano recital on stage. And all that hard work you’ve put in just vanishes because of various reasons that are hardly related to the idols themselves, which makes me wonder why such “punishment” is placed upon them.

    • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

      This comment is really insightful. 

  • http://twitter.com/Chouchou103 Michele

    “if you believe that public demonstrations of support encourage a group and show support for their actions, then why shouldn’t public demonstrations of disapproval be used to achieve the opposite effect? ”

    This made me think of tipping… I mean when you go to a concert you expect to enjoy yourself and you wave your lightstick because you are excited and happy with the performance. The same way that when you go to a restaurant you expect a certain standard of service and you tip in accordance to your feelings towards that service (at least that’s how it should be) If the service is bad, you tip less, or sometimes some don’t even tip at all. The problem comes when the waiter is expecting a tip or at least a certain amount of tip and they don’t get it because you don’t feel they deserve it. If you use this analogy, then fans should be able to not wave their lightsticks and not scream of joy if they don’t enjoy the performance or the performer.

    If a customer doesn’t tip, then the waiter has other customers that tip to cover for that one. However if none of the customers tip, then the waiter gets no money and no appreciation for his service (that he will probably feel he deserves because he provided a service). The same thing goes for performers and fans, but the difference is that while tipping is done discreetly , turning off your lightstick and not saying a word is public and can create a mass movement. 

    It can be quite delicate and some may argue that it’s disrespectful and I agree, epecially if it’s organised and done with the intent of hurting the performer. However, I must admit that when I went to SMTown in Paris, when SNSD came out I sat down in the middle of their first song because quite frankly, their performance bored me. Let me tell you that I wasn’t the only one, my whole section (except maybe 3 people) sat down at one point during the show when SNSD was performing. I had friends during both concerts in different sections of the venue and they told me the same thing happened in their section when SNSD came onstage. Even in the standing area, people would start looking at their pictures and deleting the ugly ones. It wasn’t planned but it happened. We didn’t have lightsticks and it wasn’t planned so I wouldn’t call it a black ocean but it got noticeably quieter to the point where the music and bass was turned higher during SNSD’s performances to make up for it. To be honest if I had a lightstick during that show I wouldn’t have turned it off but I probably wouldn’t have waved it with much enthusiasm.

    • MisOpparsSonMejoresQueTu

      Thanks you, I liked your point of view. I agree with you.

    • MisOpparsSonMejoresQueTu

      Thanks you, I liked your point of view. I agree with you.

    • Syl

       I also got bored at SNSD during Smtown Paris. It’s not that I don’t like them, I just didn’t find their performances entertaining at all.

      • renshukki

        Well it’s not like SNSD is playful like SUJU and charismatic like DBSK. They are girls and they go through cycles. Boys don’t typically care about that shit. But the important thing is that they all got 9 of each other and are able to work as a team who has been together for more than 5 years. Not everyone could do that. You can’t expect SNSD to put on the best performance everytime, they’re schedule is hectic.

        • Fei

          but f(x) still managed to give a better performance… and they don’t have that much experiance than SNSD. seriously, i’m not hating them, their performances are just… unenthusiastic

    • Miyuki

      maybe I’m being too emotional about this, but it’s people who think like this that push idols to the edge. When SNSD went through the Black Ocean, they seriously considered disbanding, but Yunho and many other artists calmed them down. When I go to a concert, I cheer for EVERYONE attending (I went to a Wonder Girls concert, and I screamed just as loud for the opening acts), because, even if I’m not in love with their performance, I know that it takes guts to get up there and I know how hard they try. Are  you trying to humiliate the person into improving? Because we all know how hard all these idols try to improve without the black oceans. No matter what they’ve done (I mean, besides killing a person or something), no one deserves a black ocean.

      • http://twitter.com/Chouchou103 Michele

        The black ocean is mean and I do not approve of it, but at the same time, if I don’t enjoy myself while an artist is performing then I won’t go all out and scream. I’ll applaud because it’s common courtesy but I’d rather keep my voice so I can cheer for the people who made my evening worthwhile. 

        During SMTown, I gave all the artists performing a chance. I never cared for f(x) so my expectations were pretty low but I was pleasantly surprised and cheered for them. It wasn’t like:  oh SNSD is there i’m going to sit down, it was rather : SNSD is here, let me see what they have and how they are live… ok im bored I’ll sit down. I think that SNSD being so popular I was expecting more from their live performance and instead they just seemed dead on stage.

        • Miyuki

          I don’t mind that you didn’t scream; I understand why you didn’t! I also think SNSD’s performance skills are slowly deteriorating. 

          It’s just that, I have seen one too many fans just sit down rudely and turn off their glow-sticks and start fiddling on their phones. Like you said, there needs to be a common courtesy. I know how that feels, because I was on the Speech team and I would get so crushed/annoyed when judges and listeners would start texting during my speech. Like, I may not be perfect, but you could at least look at me! 

      • greg

        He!!! I know you probably won’t get this, but would you happen to have the source from when Yunho went to go and be with the girls to comfort them?

    • http://twitter.com/lillian23910 Sharon

      I understand what your saying. It’s different though from a black ocean, where the intention is to hurt the artist. But in that Google concert pll said it was rude for so many pll to suddenly go offline and stop watching when suju was done performing. Or at Kcon when 4minute was performing. 

      I’m sorry 4minute bored me and it was night here, I didn’t feel the need to stay up and watch a performance I didn’t want to watch. I don’t only do this to kpop groups, but this happens when you go to a concert where many artists are performing. 

      I just don’t feel like standing and screaming for 3 hours when I don’t exactly like the artist.

  • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

    Huh, I actually have never heard that term before. I guess I’ve been living under a rock. 

  • AcadiasFire

    I’ve never heard of that term but I like how I was educated about it. Thanks.

  • JeebuzzKJ

    The industry chastised the ELF, Cassies and Triple S fandoms for leading such an act. The tone of your article makes it seem that people accepted this act when its only in the puerile minds of these fandoms were this action considered any good. 

    The earlier reasons for leading this was not simply rooted in the supposed arrogance of Sones but more of the dating rumors of the girls in SNSD with a number of members from the Cartel idol groups. Jealousy reigned supreme in fandoms filled with teenage girls who deem their oppas to be their own. A lot of the “evidences” put up by the cartel fandoms have been already debunked within the korean kpop community and is only really spread by the international fandoms of the Cartel believing that what comes from the mouth of their peers as bible truth.ELF has always been associated with this disgusting act multiple times due to their own arrogance that their bias group is infallible. Multiple times have there been calls of delusion and threats from this fandom whenever one of their “oppars” is involved. The latest being the issue with IU and Eunhyuk.

  • http://dvqd92.tumblr.com/ Elizabeth

    great article Sophia 

  • http://twitter.com/JM7228JW J-May 제메이©

    this is so 2008 *yawn*

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/YQ53WK5K4DPXQ5DIBKDELB6WPE Camille

    Soshi’s Black Ocean back in Dream Concert 2008 was a disgrace and should never ever happen again. I wouldn’t even wish it to any performer, no matter how much I hate them. To have the whole stadium turn off their lightsticks, too see darkness in front of you, and to hear your rival (Wonder Girls) being chanted by angry haters AND still have to keep going with your performance is the cruelest thing ever. 

    I wasn’t a fan of them at the time (I was too busy being a diehard Cassie), but Soshi has grown on me over the years. I think it’s the best form of redemption ever for them to shoot to the top not long after the Black Ocean and still dominate years later, the group and fandom still as intact as ever, while CARTEL’s beloved oppas have gone through so much drama over the years.

  • http://twitter.com/M_Wys Michaela Wylie

    Speaking of black oceans, apparently for the TVXQ concert in Seoul, Changmin acgae fans are planning on having a black ocean for Yunho. D:<<<< Stupidest thing ever. It would never happen completely, because most TVXQ fans like both members and the acgae's would never have a monopoly on the crowd, but just the idea is disgusting. T__T

    • KrisMyStar

       WTF why would that even cross their minds in the first place?!

      • Black_Plague

        Because they’re crazy ass whackos. That’s why.

      • plushiesexual

        Probably think Yunho gets most of the spotlight and Changmin is jipped.
        Black oceans are despicable.
        But, to be honest, I am glad that not everyone is ignorant to that fact.

    • http://twitter.com/silverukiss Silver

       that’s so weird. You’d think that after everything that’s happened to tvxq, and how it took them forever to come back as a band and there were only two members left, the fans that still remained would be insanely loyal to both members. I mean, if Yunho had left as well, there would be no DBSK, there would just be Changmin going solo. It’s kind of hard to have a band with just one member. I really don’t understand fans sometimes.

  • EvAiSmE

    First of all let me just say I disapprove of the black ocean. 

    Now for my opinion.. though i strongly disapprove of the black ocean especially the soshi 2008 one I have to admit that I was also somewhat impressed..and I know that may sound bad and may seem like I approve of the black ocean but honestly..really..if you look at it in a different point of view.. Nowadays can you honestly say that fandoms can band together for a common goal? NO! Even Cassies & ELF, as much as we are sisters and such we pretty much wont be all holding hands n jumping around together nowadays.. And the fans that was there wasn’t just Cassies, ELFs & Tripple S..though they might be the majority..there was still Wonderful, Shawols, Epic High & Jewelry’s fans..and general fans also..and pretty much all the lightstick was turn off xcept for some scattered here & there plus the Sones..

    I’m getting side track..I know i’m gonna get hate for this but.. my point was I was just really impressed by the UNITY of all this fans..granted it was for a horrible cause but still…the unity…we cant see that nowadays with the kpop fans..

  • Black_Plague

    Such behavior is one of the reasons why I have a tendency to look down on ELFs and Cassies for the most part.

    Let’s be frank. These two fandoms have had multiple cases of pretty nasty and insane moments – from online douchebaggery and idiocy to sasaeng behavior. Not saying SONEs are excused from this but if anything, the mentioned fandoms seem to take things up to an even further level all in the name of dedication for their oppars.  After all, Kpop’s fandoms are  populated highly of teenage girls, no?

    As an old-school follower of Kpop, I remember the 2008 black ocean hitting the news clearly and suffice to say, I was honestly quite disgusted and anyone trying to justify such behavior is clearly bonkers. Hell, it’s not like SNSD committed a crime like murder or robbery.  Even as late as 2009, there was quite a bit of commotion from Cassies accusing SNSD that they ‘seduced’ DBSK with little to no real evidence to back that up and the fact that members of both groups had CFs together didn’t help matters.

    It seems like since that black ocean in 2008, SONEs and ELFs had a pretty unkindly rivalry that still lasts to this day. You can still run across ELFs complaining that SM isn’t ‘putting enough effort’ for Super Junior in comparison to SNSD but the reality is that target demographic-wise, Suju is only catered towards teen girls for the most part unlike their female counterpart which appeals to both genders - something that many ELFs don’t seem to realize in a whole, nor do they seem to acknowledge that their oppars’ careers as idols is pretty much in its twilight years now.
        

  • Black_Plague

    Such behavior is one of the reasons why I have a tendency to look down on ELFs and Cassies for the most part.

    Let’s be frank. These two fandoms have had multiple cases of pretty nasty and insane moments – from online douchebaggery and idiocy to sasaeng behavior. Not saying SONEs are excused from this but if anything, the mentioned fandoms seem to take things up to an even further level all in the name of dedication for their oppars.  After all, Kpop’s fandoms are  populated highly of teenage girls, no?

    As an old-school follower of Kpop, I remember the 2008 black ocean hitting the news clearly and suffice to say, I was honestly quite disgusted and anyone trying to justify such behavior is clearly bonkers. Hell, it’s not like SNSD committed a crime like murder or robbery.  Even as late as 2009, there was quite a bit of commotion from Cassies accusing SNSD that they ‘seduced’ DBSK with little to no real evidence to back that up and the fact that members of both groups had CFs together didn’t help matters.

    It seems like since that black ocean in 2008, SONEs and ELFs had a pretty unkindly rivalry that still lasts to this day. You can still run across ELFs complaining that SM isn’t ‘putting enough effort’ for Super Junior in comparison to SNSD but the reality is that target demographic-wise, Suju is only catered towards teen girls for the most part unlike their female counterpart which appeals to both genders - something that many ELFs don’t seem to realize in a whole, nor do they seem to acknowledge that their oppars’ careers as idols is pretty much in its twilight years now.
        

  • serenityq2

    Never heard of this childish mess and i didnt know glow sticks were such a big deal. Sorry big bang but i came to hear you sing not wavevglowy sticks

  • taequila777

    I’ve never heard of a black ocean before, I found this fascinating. Fandoms are one aspect of K-pop I just don’t understand. I have my favorite groups yes, but if I dislike another, I’m not going to publicly humilate them.

  • TheJadeBullet

    W.T.F. I HAVE, actually, lost a little more faith in humanity.

  • http://twitter.com/J2201987 Justin Asomugha

    This is stupid. I mean, REALLY, stupid. 

  • ems_22

    Why bringing up the past while that incident of black ocean was already forgotten? Fans have gone & emerged, & bringing this up makes no sense.. For the case of EXO, that not their fault that many like them better compared to other rookie groups! this article is urging the fans to do this kind of unnecessary action.. Really stupid..

  • crv2

    well, I think it is just a stupid act from hormonal fangirls.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001186955462 Kevin Jin

    can someone explain the infamous “black ocean if 2008″ for me more in-depth plz? Though I’m no new fan to snsd/kpop, but somehow no fan site/forums talked much about it other than snsd was hated and the black ocean happened, then it was clouded with the success of Gee and soon became nearly non-existant.

    • http://www.facebook.com/marshmellowbelly Christina Xu

      The term “Black Ocean” was invented becuase of snsd.
      What happened was at the dream concert of 2008, snsd went up to perform.
      And usually people hold up lightsticks and balloons to cheer the group on right?
      HOWEVER, when snsd went on stage, everyone turned off their glowsticks, and shouted WONDERGIRLS at snsd.
      thus the term: Black Ocean was born.
      Black- meaning that everything is dark and there are no lightsticks or balloons.
      Ocean- usually fandoms describes things such as red ocean for dbsk, meaning that the whole audience or many people in the audience are holding lightsticks or balloons in support, looking like an “ocean” of red or pink, etc. so black ocean is self explanitory.

  • opinion

    this article is silly lol. I feel stupid reading this.

  • guest125128312

    Content aside, this article is so well written. Something you’d expect to find in a professional magazine

  • Quiane Lin

    korean fans are the worst fan base

  • glassaway

    no mention on 2pm black ocean about the jay park issue?

  • http://twitter.com/R2naz Şʒвǿℓα

    BEST Black Ocean was for SNSD
    and the got it today by Cass’s area when there is SNSD’s perf. https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/467438_224543627677970_1292733340_o.jpg
    hope next black ocean go for SNSD one more time :)

    • I’m a Sowon ♥ YoonAddict

      O_O Are you serious ???

  • me

    The SNSD black ocean was truly disgusting. I think the problem goes further back then just SNSD being ‘arrogant’ or having scandals. To be honest i think the reason is simply because they are girls. This is because most fans or boy groups are in fact girls. SuJu, DBSK, SS501. all the music was targeted to teen girls. Of course there are also male fans but the percentage is female. Then as horrible as it is, its always harder for girls groups because girls hate on girls. theres always jealousy and hate directed towards female group even when they do exactly the same thing as male groups. unfortutnely kpop is full of double standards and i think this is mainly because the percentage of fans are female. im not saying black oceans and hate doesnt happen to male groups or that being female is the only reason why girl groups get hate, thats not true at all. all im saying is that alot of times if you were to replace all the female fans with male fans would the same hate happen??