• Boo

    I’ve noticed that in the US, when you call someone a “pretty boy”, it tends to have a negative connotation. And I mean, the “pretty boys” over there (Brad Pitt, Orlando Bloom, etc) are still way manly and have manly sex appeal. It has a lot to do with the fact that most caucasians are just naturally bigger and angular than asians I think. 

    Asia has a different barometer for what constitutes as manly, the same with the US. It’s a cultural thing and it’s hard to argue with culture since it’s so ingrained. That’s why you don’t see SHINee making a debut in the US but you saw SE7EN try his hand at it. There are certain bands that are just tailor made for a market and the management companies know this. Or at least I’m hoping they do. I still don’t know what the hell UKISS is thinking making a debut in the States. 

    • Anonymous

      U-KISS is going to try to debut in the States? I was just using them as an example. I don’t know of any boy group that is actually going to debut.

      • Boo

        They are. 

        http://www.allkpop.com/2011/01/u-kiss-begins-preparations-for-u-s-debut

        It just boggles my mind. I can’t even.

        • Anonymous

          But wait, that article is from almost a year ago. Maybe they changed their minds? I hope so. I like U-KISS but I don’t think they’d make it or even be noticed.

          • Guest

            I’m thinking tht they did because once Kibum and Alexander left the group there wasn’t any further mention of U-KISS debuting in the states.

          • Boo

            That’s awesome. I don’t know why they even thought it in the first place. They should develop a bigger fanbase in Korea before even thinking about foreign markets.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2UNQGN7IPNTIRIWBNVHEFBHHV4 a z

      Pretty Boy is not negative in the african american community. It means a guy with pretty, maybe slightly feminine features – long eyelashes, hazel/green/grey/blue/amber irises,  even tone complexion, angular features, pouty lips – who still exudes a strong masculine presence. Of course what we perceive as pretty may not be pretty to caucasians and asians (e.g.of pretty boys: lil bow wow, Soulja boy (self proclaimed i must add) Blair Underwood, Shemar Moore). I think that a guy can be a pretty boy as long as he masculinity is undeniable.  

      • Boo

        Yes, I think pretty boy isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It clearly means that you have very nice features.  It’s just that I hear it used more often in these types of ways , “What you gonna do, pretty boy?” or “He’s just a pretty boy.” or “Nothing but a pretty boy.” 

        Like it’s not pretty boy in itself. It’s more the way it is often used.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2UNQGN7IPNTIRIWBNVHEFBHHV4 a z

          it may be a location thing then. In NY especially urban areas or areas with a good mix of AA/caucasians/hispanic/etc then it is used as a compliment even among guys. I have heard guys mock their friends saying thing like “this dude swears he is a pretty boy” or “look at this pretty dude right here”. it is used as an insult (but in a teasing way) between friends but i have never heard it used as an insult in the same way that the word gay is used. If there is a pretty guy who is feminine they just straight up call him a f****t.

          • Lill

            Uhhhh, I live in NY urban area and I’m with boo. When its between friends, its a compliment the way a friend might call another friend bitch….but otherwise I agree with boo 100%..and usually from other men. You don’t really hear it from other women.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/5MXM3LOV7HCSUK56SAA2CMHMPU JABA

         I know I know. He is married. But when I read Blair Underwood, my heart skipped a beat :)

  • Aya

    ahahahah i love the way you put shinee pic in almost every post with a tag “gay” “gayness” etc….cheers, mate..

    • Anonymous

      I was just using SHINee as an example in this article and I don’t believe the boys are actually gay but they will be perceived that way if they come to the States. I can’t recall any other writers refering to SHINee, or any other boy group, as “gay” in their posts.

  • Andi

    I’m sorry, but I don’t see what the big deal is; in fact, this article’s very existence baffles me. Just because some ignorant people may think they’re “gay” doesn’t change the fact that they’re talented or that their songs are entertaining.

    • Anonymous

      No, it doesn’t change that. My point was that people’s perception of them could halt their chances of success. On top of everything else (language, cultural barriers), people’s perception of a group’s image is highly important. You can sing wonderfully but if people think you are a joke, you’re not going to get far. Many boy group’s image and past actions (crossdressing and skinship) aren’t things that Westerners will like and will therefore ignore or ridicule the group.

      • Andi

        Not really… look at Adam Lambert, Boy George, Elton John, even Lady Gaga. If anything, the West is much more accepting of alternative lifestyles than South Korea is; South Korea is actually quite conservative in that sense.

        • chelle

          2 of the people you posted are out of the closet. 1 isn’t really that popular and Boy George isn’t relevant today and followed the glam tred made famous by David Bowie and others. Elton John is a legend and you cannot compare shinee to Elton John. Lady Gaga is accepted because she actually advocates gay rights and people know this, also…she’s female I don’t get why you mentioned her.

          The point of the article is that the Asian perception and Western perception are completely different in representation amongst males. The only guys you see wearing guyliner in America is rockers….or Adam Lambert. Whatever guys do they always have to say, “no homo” (my brother and practically every guy I know says this all the time and it is so aggravating!). Why? Men aren’t comfortable with men displaying feminine actions and label them as “gay” even though their not. JB and Jbros don’t even display a whole lot of femininity compared to Asian Artists and their still being ragged upon. No one takes them seriously or their music even though their popular.

          Shinee would be the equivalent to all these boy bands who are made by companies in the US who try to debut but never gained even an ounce of success, for example NLT. Where are they now? Nowhere the novelty of a group died a decade ago with Nsync and it is not going to come back unless a company has phenomenal marketing strategies plus luck.

          • Anonymous

            Thanks! I think you might’ve put my argument better than me lol

        • Anonymous

          But will the Kpop boy groups be compared to Elton John and Lady Gaga? More than likely, Justin Bieber and the Jonas Brothers will spring to mind. Those artists are known and accepted for their lifestyles but they don’t present themselves in the way Kpop idols do. More than that, Elton John and Lady Gaga have reached a point in popularity that no one cares that they’re gay. Adam Lambert is known but I wouldn’t call him mainstream and his makeup-wearing is a result of being punk or emo or whatever so no one really cares about that. And Lady Gaga is a bisexual women and from my standpoint, people are more accepting of lesbians than homosexual men. Men look at it as entertainment and women don’t normally care. Lastly, there’s something I forgot to mention in my article: the stigma of boy bands. Most people find boy bands “gay” and lame. The association with Biebs and the JoBros, the crossdressing, fashion sense, boy band stigma, and skinship ultimately create an image most Westerners will probably not like. So while there are many celebrities in Hollywood that are openly gay and very much loved, they’re not the same as Kpop idols and people could just treat them as they do poor Biebs. Kpop idols will be stereotpyed as gay and criticized as thus on talk shows and Comedy Central.

          I do get where you’re coming from though and if Kpop boy groups do come the States (which they probably will eventually), I hope people don’t automatically stereotype them as “gay” and Bieber-like.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/5MXM3LOV7HCSUK56SAA2CMHMPU JABA

       Unfortunately these ignorant people hold the purse strings and dictate the trend. If they say “pretty boy” is the same as gay boy. Then the masses who want to impress or break into this culture, follow.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe the likes of Big Bang and 2PM would have less chances of falling under JBiebs-land. Although I love both of these groups, I don’t really expect success in mainstream america either. Kpop fans can rally all they want but if the groups’ concepts and music doesn’t sit well with your average american, we’re gonna have problems.

    Music-wise, these groups just need to find that place in american music where they can fit in and still keep the styles they have today. Hiphop-Pop and Beastly should stick. The language will also definitely be an obstacle and for that, perhaps 2PM has the advantage. But if the wondergirls can pull off decent english in less than 2 years, who says Big Bang can’t do it too? 

    I hate to say it but maybe a gimmicky club song will do the trick. Hands Up and High High can be their stepping stones but they definitely need more explosive and western-sounding to make it there. 

    • Anonymous

      Actually, Big Bang was doing English remakes and originals of their songs before 2PM even debuted. Look up How Gee, Number 1, Baby Baby, With U, We Belong Together (English), Together Forever, This Love (English), and in many of their Japanese songs, they incorporate a lot of English. All of their English songs are understandable without subtitles despite their accents getting in the way of a couple words. A lot of the songs I listed were back in their 2006-2008 years and can be found on The Ultimate ‘International’ Best.

  • http://twitter.com/Eclipse_9 Eclipse

    Lol ! so what if they are soooOoOo gay -_- i’d even love them more. people can stay mad…pfftt

  • Anonymous

    *sigh*… sometimes i wish guys here in the states weren’t so obsessed with proving their masculinity. every time i go out i see sooooo many “bros” (huge arms/chest muscles, tribal tattoos, fitted t-shirts to show off muscles). obviously not ALL guys in the states are like this but even my boyfriend (who is like the complete opposite of a bro) has a problem wearing certain styles of clothes for fear of looking too “gay”. i live in a suburban community about 45 minutes outside washington d.c. so i figure it’s a cultural thing. usually when i go to the city i can find a lot more fashion forward looking men. it’s funny how we focus so much on the EAST vs. WEST thing when cultural differences can be so minuscule. i guess we all just live in our bubbles.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lori-Banner/1736190170 Lori Banner

    IF K-pop boy bands in the US look anything like JYJ ay girl. Yeh, they are so gonna be labelled as gay. Sorry, just facts, you can’t expect mainstream America to accept that. These boy bands ( I love them to death), but every time I show them to my friends the only comment they have is “whoa they look so girly”. Instead of perceiving the musical abilities or what not, first they notice the image. But then again, K-pop has become quite “big” in recent years, I remember a few years back there weren’t this many crazy fantoms.

    • yuka5470

      solution : don’t show them Ayy girl’s video, show them Get out video. (I would burn that video if i could) (I’m a crazy delusional stans of DB5K/2VXQ/JYJ)
      it’s a much much better medicine of my sudden sickness whenever i remember ayy girl. i need to choke whoever they are who produced the video.

  • Anonymous

    The concept of “so gay” is antiquated and derogatory. There is nothing wrong with being so gay. To be offended by it and come to defend any idol’s masculinity/heterosexuality is to agree with the offenders. You don’t see anyone trying to defend anyone else for being “so straight,” do you?

    • Anonymous

      If you’re accusing me of being offended by it, I’m not. I stated in the article that I love more effeminate idols just the way they are and there’s nothing wrong with them at all. But their image, which is highly loved in Korea, isn’t so in the West and could pose as a threat to them in the West. This article is meant to speculative over whether or not the cultural differences in the perception of masculinity would be a problem for the Hallyu Wave.

      But other than that I agree with your statement.

    • Anonymous

      I am offended when people say “so gay” because it implies that you are generalizing the gay community as people who display that characteristic. If you called someone “so white” or “so black” or “so straight”, I would come to their defense because saying that one could be so much of a certain characteristic, when not taking about that characteristic, means that you are stereotyping.

  • Sali

    In my opinion, a lot of Korean idols are feminine. But some of them are really homosexual. I’m pretty sure INFINITE’s maknae is gay. I’m not sure of U-Kiss Kevin and SuJu’s Ryeowook. Key, Jo Kwon, and Heechul are straight.

    • http://www.twitter.com/hipployta Hipployta

      Yeah…I defiantly agree with this post; particularly on Sungjong. His appearance on Happy Together sealed it for me 

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think that’s a fair assumption. It’s wrong to say that they’re homosexual because they are feminine, because it’s a stereotype of homosexuals and it discourages males from acting a way that isn’t “manly”. Homosexuality means you’re attracted to people of the same sex. It doesn’t mean you’re fabulous, have long hair, look pretty, or wear flashy clothes. And the opposite is also true.

      • Anonymous

        I bet that the last Kpop idol anyone would ever expect is gay, like Taecyeon or Doojoon or someone.

        • Anonymous

          That doesn’t make it any more right to assume that the less manly types are. And if the ones you’ve mentioned come out, I don’t want to be there when everyone says they didn’t expect it because of the stereotypes they’ve believed about gay people. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/5MXM3LOV7HCSUK56SAA2CMHMPU JABA

         I agree. It is like saying a tomboyish girl is a lesbian based on her appearance.

    • Anonymous

      Those men are highly suspicious but I’m personally hestitant to outright label them as “gay” because that would be stereotyping.

      If Sungjong and Key are really gay, I want them to be my sassy gay best friends.

      • Sali

        I meant Sungjong is gay. I never said Key was. Jey is a bit feminine but there is still a hint of masculinity unlike Sungjong. Sungjong is all girl inside. He’s definitely a gay.

        • Anonymous

          I never said Key was gay either, I said IF they are. And you also shouldn’t say Sungjong is gay because he is “all girl inside.” Many homosexuals would find that statement offensive.

          Until an idol comes out and says that he is gay, nothing is certain.

        • http://www.twitter.com/hipployta Hipployta

          A gay…BWAHAHAHAHAHA…your phrasing is just…LOL

  • SHINee52911

    u lost me when u put Bieber *vomit* and the Jo Bros (i miss the 06-08 era) on there

  • http://twitter.com/ryzlbrmudz Rayzel Bermudez

    I definitely do think that the cultural differences in the perception of masculinity would be an issue in the Hallyu Wave. Roughly 2 and a 1/2 months back when I became immersed in the world of Korean pop, it had been my first time viewing SHINee’s ‘Lucifer’, and believe me, I did not see it in a good light. I thought their attire and make up was extremely feminine, and had automatically questioned Key’s sexuality. It was not until watching them on ‘Hello Baby’ and learning more about the Korean culture that I could return to the video and see it with acceptance and even affection. Henry Lau (a member of SuJu M) once discussed his initial experience with the other members, saying he was extremely shocked and disliked it when the others held hands, slapped his butt and hugged him. Coming from North America, he was probably under the impression that his hyungs were all gay. I think part of the process of becoming a Kpop fan is to shed some of that ignorance that you get from any western country’s culture: you cannot just perceive someone through their looks. Which is why, even though I am not a Jonas Brothers or Justin Bieber fan, it has become increasingly upsetting for me that they receive such cruel treatment. First of all, why is “gay” being used as an insult?! There is nothing wrong with being gay, and it certainly says a lot about the haters who have the nerve to insult male artists for – say, wearing pink.. again, it’s just ignorance, no one has a legitimate excuse for actually hating these artists. However, the first kind of ignorance is replaced with another: your favourite idols are CERTAINLY going to be mainstream in America. That is not true. In fact, it’s sort of something that I’ve come to fear for our Kpop groups – exposure to western countries: even I can admit that overall, Kpop male idols take it to another level than Justin Bieber or the Jonas Brothers – something that would NOT be met with a lot of positivity in America. In fact, the treatment could be infinitely worse, and it’s not something that I would wish upon any of these groups. It would require a whole revamp for these idols to appeal to a western country audience, something that I would hate. Kpop has totally changed my perspective – I LIKE it that guys can express their affection to each other and dress in feathers or leather or whatnot and it wouldn’t be considered gay. It’s a breath of fresh air. When it comes down to it, if everyone would simply stop for a second and appreciate the talent that these artists display, and not JUST the get up, the world would be a better place. But unfortunately, like I myself even did, people automatically make assumptions at first sight, and may not even look back. Lucky for me, I did, and I’m forever appreciative of Kpop. 

    • Vi Bui

      You brought up a good point with Henry’s experience when joining SM. There is just this cultural divide that people have trouble crossing. 

    • Bstar5

      And that’s why it amazes me that knowing this people truly believe idols in KPop groups are suddenly in love because of all the skinship they display when they are looking at that behavior through a western lens.

  • Blurred Mongoose

    “A blind person who sees
    is better than a seeing person who is blind.”

    Hi Natalie, your name caught my eyes as I felt that we share similar sentiments through most of your articles. Is there any way to contact you for private conversations?

    • Anonymous

      That’s so nice! But I’m hestitant to give out personal information online. I don’t have a MySpace, Twitter, or Facebook but I do have a Tumblr! You can try to contact me there. There isn’t much Kpop on it, though.

      http://teacupsandtomfoolery.tumblr.com/

  • Kliks

    Speaking of masculinity… I started to follow this rookie group X-5 when they debuted around april this year and their concept was clearly manly but with their first minialbum comeback, their choreography was way too femenine (just like AA’s), and I said “was” because they’ve already changed it, so I wonder why they did it… Was it the criticism from international (western) fans? or k-netizen’s?.. That would bring down the theory that korea likes effeminate boys… just saying…

  • koaj

    Dear Natalie,
    Please don’t ever call bieber or jonas brothers pretty boys ever again.
    Thanks.

    and no matter how hard gd tries to act/sound like a man, he’s pretty damn gay. be offended :)

    • lay

      maybe you should take your own advice to Natalie to not ever call any korean idols gay ever again?

    • Anonymous

      I think the JoBros are pretty hot lol. They and Biebs are like the Western versions of pretty boys. But everyone has their own tastes.

  • Anonymous

    I really don´t like “it´s so gay” phrase because it´s rude and TBH I have no idea what “so gay” actually means and I´m sure people who use it either (but I know it´s rude … LOL). Anyway I pretty much agree with the article and especially with “skinship and cross-dressing will probably never be liked,
    understood, or accepted. Unless it’s for gags, Westerners just aren’t
    into those sort of things”. Skinship or fanservis are of those things I just don´t get about K-pop but I understand it´s a part of package, nevertheless, I would prefer not having it around. TBH things like that and the whole idol-culture concept bother me much more than the fact that so many Asian boys look rather less masculine according to my cultural background. I personally think there´re the cultural differences between masculinity and I also think that no one is obliged to accept or follow them but no one should discriminate others either. I would never call flower-boys “gay” but I actually really find many of them very effeminate. But I don´t think the “flower-boy look” itself is what makes some people calling these guys “gay”. I agree with the article that “the past skinship and crossdressing doesn’t help, and neither does the guy-liner” or dance and animal outfits and stuff like that.

  • lay

    so. by looking pretty and kinda effeminate in manners make a man gay? arent’ there loads of manly celebrities in the west who are gay? some of them even look like a hulk with their toned and muscular bodies but … heh.

  • Anonymous

    yunjae!miss them so much!!!cry..cry…T_T

  • Firefly

    Also, shipping of different members is not going to help idols if they ever tried to debut in the States. I can see some people going past the physical appearances by saying that “it’s just the way that Korean idols are” or “it’s normal in Korea” but the current k-pop shipping culture? It’s like the fans are providing validation for the “he’s so gay” comments.

  • Guest

    my cousin who is part Korean in there somewhere…always asks me how my gaysians are doing. The perpetrator is Jaejoong/TVXQ. They weren’t doing anything effeminate or lusting over each other at the time. They just had coiffed hair, tailored outfits and soft faces typically associated with the features formed by high levels of estrogen. Now as a rule anything pretty and Korean is a very nice looking genderless person slash lady – congratulations and goodnight.

    – Cross dressing: obnoxious. (Especially the way the S. Korean male society treats it as though females are a strange alien race of weak, vapid dunces. Or they like to see certain males dress-up to justify their attraction to them. Because you see if they are attracted to a man/boy in women’s attire then they themselves aren’t actually gay. Just like how they don’t want to see women of age prancing around in risque clothing acting sensual because that’s not being a proper gentle woman. But they’ll watch “over” little girls do the same thing like good uncles.)
    – Skinship: When it’s the kind of interaction you see between platonic friends and family members it’s cute;  As reference to odd [often inappropriate] sexual behavior the type of PDA that makes you say “Get a room” never liked it, must be stopped. (Another thing that must be stopped is graphic fan made coupling media both hetero and homosexual. It crosses the line into disrespectful and invasive. They are real people not fictional characters.)
    – Guy-liner: now I’ve grown up on David Bowie, punk rock, and Johnny Depp as a Pirate of the Caribbean. So, to me it can be very sexy depending on how the liner is applied, what their hair and outfit look like, and the guy’s demeanor.

  • Anonymous

    Very. The boys looking so gay is what I first noticed about kpop and why I initially didn’t like it at first. I’m not homophobic but I can’t just like a man that looks like a woman. It’s not within my preference.

  • http://twitter.com/MonicaDBSK Monica

    I’ve adapted to the korean pretty/flower boy thing a long time ago(since 2007. Thought Jaejoong looked like a total girl when I first saw him.But I love him now)  so I’m used to it now. I know they’re not gay but yeah, I rarely describe these guys as handsome or rugged or manly.

    On a side note, u-kiss fans might kill me but I do question kevin sometimes. It’s the way he talks…it’s not like most pretty boys. He sounds like this one salesperson guy at this store that I frequent who is actually gay….*hides*

    • Anonymous

      Don’t feel bad. I’ve noticed this, too. Whenever he speaks in English he has that lisp many gay men tend to have. But I don’t think this necessarily means that he’s gay though, because I’ve actually met men that sound like that and are completely straight.

      • ebolajez

        A lisp that many gay men tend to have? Those kinds of statements make me feel incredibly uncomfortable.

        • Anonymous

          They really shouldn’t make you uncomfortable. I say this because I know and am friends with MANY homosexuals and a lot of them have some degree of that lisp. The inflection that some homosexuals have in their voice is known as a “gay lisp.” But not every homosexual man has that lisp and some people that do are actually straight. There’s nothing wrong with having this lisp and talking about it shouldn’t upset you.

      • JC

        He could very well be gay since it’s well-known that gay men are drawn to entertainment and fashion industries.  Don’t be surprised that the same goes for Korea. PLUS the fact that they have to live in tiny dorm rooms together for years… might be more incentive for young gay men to become an idol.

      • RakSiam

        I don’t think Kevin really has a lisp. But he has a very “gay” voice. It’s hard to explain but I know it when I hear it. As a gay guy with lots of gay friends and acquaintances it’s just something you pick out.

  • Anonymous

     Well, we are getting an increase in the sub culture of metrosexuals, and there’s also the “emo kid” population. Many male Kpop idols would be thrown into those groups unless they continue to do the skinship thing, in which case, yes. They’d automatically be pegged as “gay” by everyday guys who aren’t as magnetizing. I definitely think groups like Big Bang [or anyone from YG] would have an easier time blending in. They’re not conventionally attractive in Korea, but here, they’d be considered hot enough to get attention without being too “boy band” pretty to automatically turn people over the age of 17 off. They get facial hair, 5o’clock shadow, and they get a bit of acne. They keep themselves up, but they don’t always look like they spent more time in front of the mirror with the flat iron, hair spray, and curlers than the girls did. Same can be said for JYP artists or The Jungle, or underground acts. They’re handsome/pretty, but they look… human, like they have flaws. In America, we’re simply used to guys being attractive without being prettier than the average girl. Nothing wrong with the “flower boys” like Jae, Key, etc. They’re just not what we’re used to and they have qualities that carry a negative stigma to the stereotypical testosterone dripping, macho, manly-man because of a few “loud” examples of what a gay man represents: pretty face, non-baritone voice, can communicate with females and they’re on the guy like white on rice but the guy never dates anyone, doesn’t walk around the house in his boxers and cheetoes stained beater scratching his crotch, drinking a beer, and only cares about sports/games and has no regard for others when it comes to the gross things about the human body like belching and flatulence.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=513439726 Sharon Overlord

    Actually Big Bang also looks gay here. But they are less gay looking compared to other bands. I have no idea how Boy bands will fare here. What makes boybands so loved by international fans are the skinship, pretty idols, etc. But it might be what keeps them from entering into America.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Meliah-Macon/537901502 Meliah Macon

    This sums up my thoughts exactly. I can’t argue one bit with this. I agree with everything you said and I will be forever defending my Kpop boys. ( I have been defending them all week with my family.) American guys don’t even appeal to me anymore. Well there are some, but I’m much more attracted to Asian guys. My family doesn’t understand it and honestly, neither do i. But I regret nothing.

  • G.

    I don’t think there’s anyone in the entire world who could accuse Justin Bieber of being gay. Not after he went public with Selena Gomez and all of these random pictures of him grabbing her ass started floating around the internet. And the boy doesn’t crossdress either. His songs are very “pop”, but his image isn’t ambiguous at all. Even with that horrid hair.

    • Gilcrease

      well he did change up his look but there is a term called beard in which allegedly gay entertainers use women as cover for their lifestyles. This also can apply to the k ent industry in which actors,and singers will say things like i love women and my ideal type is when actuality their ideal type is a man not a woman.

      • G.

        Even if such a thing exists, I am hard pressed to find an instance where I ever thought that Justin Bieber was gay. Sure, his hair is a little long and he wears slim-fitted jeans a lot… but he looks, acts, and talks like a lot of American teenage boys. ‘Cept he’s famous.

        I have to admit to being one of the many people who thought the person who sang “One Time” was a girl. Although puberty seems to have taken care of his voice.

        • UsuallySilent

          There are quite a few males who look, act, and talk like many American teenage boys…and they’re homosexual.  They hide behind invisible masks in order to avoid the grief that literally the whole nation will surely give them.  Sure, there are those homosexuals that like to flaunt their sexuality, there are those who try to hide it but it is obvious, and then there are those who wear the masks that hide their true sexuality in fear of being ridiculed.  It’s seen everyday.

  • http://chewymonkeygoneloco.tumblr.com aussie_shawol

    As a Shawol I’m not offended because I agree with this article…. But the reason I hate on Jonas Brothets and Biebetmr aren’t on their looks but their fans…. Omg so annoying ><

  • Guest

    jaejoong by far is the prettiest and georgeous man i’ve ever seen. and ironically, he is definitely manly, manlier than most other sissy korean idols out there. heck, he’s the strongest in db5k.

    • Gilcrease

      lol plus he cut his hair but his feminity is still apparent and maybe it is time for fans to stop kidding themselves and admit that majority of these boy bands and k-pop idols are gay, i know that is hard to accept but it is true.

      • http://twitter.com/xxTirahxx Marina

        If that’s the case, all of Korean men may as well be gay … because Jaejoong isn’t the only one that acts this way. : |

        Just because Korean men may be raised more effeminately doesn’t mean they have to be gay, the culture is quite different over there and I don’t think you understand this. Jaejoong was raised with a bunch of sisters after all. Not only that, he’s one that would rather be called handsome than pretty.

        And if you are saying that cutting your own hair makes you a gay man then you’re crazy. =_=;; I hate when people just assume, have facts before you accuse.

  • Joshua Choe

    It’s the makeup part that I love to make fun of.

  • http://gabidubu.tumblr.com Gabi

    God forbids SHINee to debut in the west. Or the “not so manly western-wise” boybands, for that matter. I think people definitely won’t create the double standard you’re talking about. They’ll go straight and say they’re completely and absolutely gay, and that they’re TRYING to be like Justin Bieber or The Jonas Brothers. Which, I think, is worse than saying they could be equivalent. I actually hate the comparison, not because SHINee or other k-boybands “are better”, but for the treatment that’s behind it. Sure, JB and JoBros have their fans to defend them, but k-boybands would significantly have less fans. 
    And that comparison is surely going to be made, whether we like it or not, because those are the only artists close enough to look like kpop boybands. Even JB-JoBros fans could turn against k-bands for “copying” their beloved artists (I’m here imagining the worst case scenario). 

    And yes, I actually feel upset when they call them gay, not because they might or might not actually be homosexual, but because of the derogatory meaning people use for that word. It’s not fair for gay people to receive this lousy treatment; hence, the lousy treatment k-boybands are receiving/going to receive in America as well. 

  • Hhaass

    it’s really weird how americans are so closeminded…

    • http://mithunonthe.net/ MithunOnThe.Net

      And yet produce most of the world’s p0rn — including the gay stuff!

    • Gilcrease

      closeminded my friend image is everything and it is time for men to stop looking and acting like women. It is called the feminization of the Korean man and that needs to stop.

      • JC

        If Korean women likes it, they will keep making them.  Why do you think Japan is full of feminine Johnny’s boys?  Cus the J-girls wanted men like in the Shojo mangas.  If Korea ever become a world-wide pop machine like the US/UK, then you’ll see groups cater to each locations. You can start to see that already with EXO-M and SJ-M – group tailor-made for a non-Korean audience.  But I doubt KPOP can overcome anti-Asian racism in the US so this is all moot anyway. 

        • UsuallySilent

          However, if you look at it, yes, some Johnny’s boys are feminine, but just their look.  They’re behaviors are quite masculine, such as Ueda of KAT-TUN. He boxes. And Kamenashi, who enjoys baseball.

          • Anonymous

            So you’re saying that baseball and boxing are non-gay sports?? Lol @ that. Apparently u don’t know many gay men, as there’s femme men and “manly” men and a range of types in between. Let’s not generalize here, it comes off as ignorant.

      • http://twitter.com/Pingo_31 Cindy

        How could they stop there culture well thats how i see it

  • Sali

    INFINITE Sungjong is so far the only one i know for sure is gay. The femininity of Ryeowook and Kevin is something to look at. Kevin, Heechul, Jo Kwon and Jaejoong are just feminine but are straight.

  • http://mithunonthe.net/ MithunOnThe.Net

    Thanks for this article. I’m an Indian k-pop fan and here’s how a recent conversation with my friends went:

    Me: “… so you guys should check out this k-pop song..” *interrupted*
    Friend: “what pop? gay-pop?” *LAUGHTER from other friends*
    Me: “No, K-pop… (oh forget it)..”

    Every k-pop group is going to find it tough to crack America, but the boys face more hardship than the girls. Especially because of the fashion and the way they act.

  • Vi Bui

    Instead of comparing Kpop boybands to the likes of Justin Bieber or the Jonas Brothers, we may want to look at actual American boybands from the early 2000s, like NSYNC or the Backstreet Boys. Korean entertainment companies look at these American boybands and put their own Korean spin on them, making Kpop groups. Lance Bass from NSYNC actually turned out to be gay. And though recently boybands have been coming back into trend with groups like Big Time Rush and One Direction from the UK, Americans or Westerners in general may assume that the Kpop guys are “gay.”

    The problem that needs to be addressed is not the tendency for Korean or Asian men in general to be more feminine and for more feminine men to be classified as more attractive. That is part of their culture. Westerners need to be open to foreign cultures and ideas. However, at the same time, if Kpop groups were to try to enter the American market, they would also have to tone down on the things that they do that might make people think they are gay, like male/male skinship and cross-dressing.

    I’d also like to point out that men who dress well and are into fashion doesn’t really qualify as a criteria for classifying someone as gay. Take a look at American celebrities like Brad Pitt or Kanye West. They pay attention to the clothes they wear and what’s in style but would never be called gay.

  • Bstar5

    I really don’t think the guyliner, tight pants and fem looks are the issue.  You can just look at a marathon of 80’s music videos and see guys sporting long permed hair, makeup, and lycra and a lot of those guys weren’t considered gay.  If those looks could be accepted back then they can be accepted again.  I do think the fact that many of these male idols that have a more delicate build and facial features compared to guys in the U.S. would become an issue.  Unfortunately, just like it’s always been with boy bands, they’ll be perceived as moderately talented manufactured product created exclusively to steal the hearts of tween and teen girls.  They’re labelled as bubble gum and cutesy and from an artistic standpoint no one takes them seriously even with all their popularity.  It will get even worse for KPop groups because the focus seems to be on tight choreography over solid vocals.  There are very few KPop idols I’ve seen perform their songs at a music shows without a vocal backtrack and that includes KPop idols who are known as the best singers of the industry.  If they come to the States to debut they will be expected to perform their songs without it and it will only magnify their lack of vocal skills.  This will especially be the case when they are sharing the stage with established artists who are lacking by U.S. standards yet still manage to sing live and give off a lot of charisma in their stage performances.  Tight choreography wont be enough because they will also be expected to engage the audience which I’ve seen very few idols do when they become obsessed with their synchronized routines.  I think male idols male on male skinship and awkwardness with the opposite sex will definitely be an issue as well.  As I said before men in touch with their feminine side in terms of fashion has been accepted before but in the cases where it was, many of those artists whose sexuality was in question were respected because they wrote their own lyrics and composed their own songs or they were able to still convince people that they were very much straight despite what they were wearing (usually because they were drowning in groupies and had the typical model girlfriends).   Many of these idols are in their twenties and keep saying they’ve never dated meanwhile Justin Bieber isn’t even 18 yet and is in a high profile relationship, has a woman saying he’s the father of her child, and has dealt with other rumors of him being sexually active.  Even with all of their purity rings, the Jonas Brothers dated during the height of their career.  So I can’t even imagine what would happen to male KPop idols who’ve pushed this image of having no dating experience dealing with the questions that will come up about their dating history and their feelings about sex.  It would definitely be interesting.

    • http://www.facebook.com/eske.candia Eske Candia

      excellent points you have raised there. it always comes back to the music. that’s why i pretty much admire musicians who can write their own music and perform live in normal clothes without all the hoopla of special effects and packaging concocted by their record companies. manufactured music can succeed but they usually do not last.

  • kpop fans

    May it’s true. But I don’t know surely. However, KPOP artists are really looking so appealing. :D

    http://www.youtube.com/user/KPopDanceTutorials

  • JC

    I’m sorry, that’s not entirely the issue.  You think it’s about purely looks but it’s not.  “Mainstream” Americans will still call GD and TOP “gay”.  The sad fact is that a lot of non-Asian Americans will see ANY Asian male singing and dancing “gay”.  This is just purely racism against Asian men, that’s all.  You see, Asian men can only be a stereotype in American meida – nerds/asexual kunfu maste/ninjas/delivery boy.  Anything else is not accepted and can all be termed as gay.  Don’t believe me?  Take a picture of Taeyang from BB (even a shirtless one) and ask random non-Asian folks what they think of him – I’ll bet majority of them will simply say GAY or “Ewww.. Asian…”   This is the reason KPOP will fail, especially for boy groups – good old American racism.

    • Henry

      I don’t believe its purely racism since bieber is also a caucasian and gets more hate than anyone he’s not american but he is still a caucasian and the jonas brothers are american though and still get hates.its not racism some are racist no doubt some too just think they look too feminine and very homosexual like. its not racism its the different perspective of a country i can assure you many other caucasian countries would accept it.

  • miss_shawol

    i’m a SHAWOL meaning..a SHINee fan..plus..i don’t like Justin Bieber..so..i’m the kind of person that is to be expected to not like this article because it’s like discriminating my group bias for being asian or gay and like good words for someone i don’t really like for racial reasons..but i’m also a person with my own opinion..every opinion is not wrong..i grew up always hearing this phrase so my reaction to this article is like right..the opinion is right..i can only agree to some of this and disagree to some of these..like skinship and cross-dressing will probably never be liked, understood, or accepted..i disagree..it may take time but they will..

  • http://twitter.com/gmedespair Webster Slater

    I don’t think it’s “cultural” in solely those terms: ideas of masculinity differ. That’s kind of not true, in fact, in both the US and Korea, they are pretty similar. I think what’s unique to Korea, is the disaffection towards Homosexuality that creates this “voyeur” culture (see. Jo Kwon, Heechul, Key, etc…). It’s as if…”see, he dances, dresses, and acts girly but at the end of the day, Oppa is just being silly…he’s not gay!” 

    And that’s the inherent problem. No fan (read: no obsessive, hormonal girl) in Korean could entertain for one moment that any of these men could be gay because it’s incompatible with their world view and perceptions of these men as “beautiful, perfect, amazing….: Idols. You can’t tell me that not at least a few of these artists mentioned above are actually gay.Yeah, right…In fact, I’d say this paradox (the assumption that none of these Hyungs and Oppas are gay because “gay” is such a nasty, dirty thing and they are so pure, innocent, and good) actually allows them to freely experiment and express their sexuality: “Who cares if I’m cross dressing and dancing to Nu Abu, I’m straight by default.” But in the end it’s still a paradox.

    And this, in the larger picture, is the clash between Korea and America. In the US, you are gay by default (Bieber, Jonas Brothers, etc), but in Korea, you’ll always be straight (minus some pretty convincing circumstantial evidence that is). I think most of this is attributed to the difference between Korean [culture of shame] and US [culture of guilt] societies at large, but not necessarily views of “masculinity” per say. It just seems Korean idols get much more breathing room (until they f*ck up or kill themselves i.e. shame).

    I just hope one of these days some one will open that closet door…

    • Anonymous

      the most interesting part of your comment was
      “In the US, you are gay by default (Bieber, Jonas Brothers, etc), but in Korea, you’ll always be straight (minus some pretty convincing circumstantial evidence that is)”, that was an interesting observation

  • Anonymous

    lol, and Big Bang also did their good ammount of fan servise, T.O.P kissed everyone in the group except for Taeyang xD and G-Dragon has Heartbreaker and Breathe, where he doesn’t look very manly let’s say (for western standars).. but that is only if they become phenomenon, otherwise people won’t creep in their past videos

  • david lee

    You’ve made several very accurate posts about K-pop. One thing I would like to mention, is with all the barriers that K-pop faces in becoming mainstream in the US, it’s English. Native Koreans  have terrible English. And the companies correcting them are not much help. YG is probably the only group to have any where near fluency. And being a Korean who has lived in the US, a good amount of the K-pop stars look feminine or gay. Although I love the groups, the eye liner and cross dressing makes me gag.

  • David

    K-pop is trash, it’s not real music. There is nonsoul just sex appeal

    • darkwings808

      and you are here in a kpop article because….? just click away…

  • http://twitter.com/NisSnSd khairunnisa khalid

    I really hate when people talking about gay kpop!!!!!
    They are not gay it’s just for fun people now are so sensitive -___- 
    know about them first!

  • Kiss_me

    K-pop is huge all over the western world, but it would be difficult for it to become mainstream in places like USA I think people are more into it because it’s NOT mainstream in the western world if that makes sense when I got into K-pop I was really intrigued by the culture so i started watching loads of variety shows and stuff and I realised most of the guys are just generally slightly effeminate its just the way it is the whole guy liner and clothing  is what makes K-pop artists stand out and to be fair they can pull it off … even if some of them maybe gay what’s the big deal, SHINee, SJ, U-Kiss ect they’re all pretty hot me thinks, also I think people like Justin Bieber or the Jonas Brothers are just flagged as being ‘gay’ by other guys and people who just don’t like them I mean compare them to K-pop artist who were make up ect they pretty manly to me

  • Jealous?

    There’s asian people living in other countries too you know… I’m not Korean but I get asian culture in general.  Bieber et al are douchebags.  They’re not gay, but for some people they use that word instead.

    In any case, you can’t tell me s. korean men are more affectionate to eachother than europeans.  roger federer and rafael nadal, anyone?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002246424014 Tiaralover Diadem

    i think other culture are not just use to seeing to guys being that close.. :)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/LHVBUHUSYF227V4MY4CXB5P5Y4 Gabby

    I like a few Kpop artist but hate the feminine look on the males. It’s not just the look, it’s the actual kissing and constant pairing of group members. I think the fans take it to the extreme online. Also these managers making them live together so long at a young age makes them confused. I don’t find it funny at all. I cringe when I see my favorite Kpop artist looking like he’s in drag. These men are handsome and manly BEFORE they debuted! Kim Heechul and Key are two examples. They are both handsome young men who have been feminized to death! 

    • Anonymous

      I’m pretty sure that Heechul and Key were pretty “feminized” before they began training to be Kpop idols and I’m perfectly happy with that. I have no problem with gay people and I’m sure there are quite a few gay men in the idol ranks.

  • Anonymous

    I think we could all agree, at least somewhere deep in our respective minds, that SHINee has no place in the western music industry. Love them, but no chance no way.

  • Anonymous

    This is a well thought out article and I am in agreement with many points. But I do not believe K pop will be anywhere near successful in the west.

    In the western world, the declination of boy bands – as opposed to instrumental playing bands began in the mid 1990’s. Nowadays, boy bands do not flourish at all or are ephemereal at the most (ie. Jonas Brothers). 

    Korean pop idols’ fame are not only build upon pretty packaging, but are bolstered by their involvement in variety shows and to a lesser extent, dramas. This provides the opportunity for them to showcase their tother talents and charms. Western artists do not engage in variety shows; in fact, I am hardpressed to even NAME a western variety show.

    K pop bands members are often a mashup of talents, many of which are outside of singing. This is most prominent in large bands (ie. SNSD, Super Junior) where singing is limited to a few select members while all others get one solo line in the song. The nonsingers’ might excel with their dashing good-looks, strong dance moves, passionate acting, skillful knitting, etc…  which will help expand their legion of admirers. But in the west, the ability to sing well is first and foremost. We – and I use the term loosely – do not care that XYZ can simultaneously juggle two cats and a carrot, perform a vocal impression of a rampaging bull elephant, and pirouette while maintaining perfectly tousled hair; all of this holds no importance to our view of a singer.

    And then there is the mentality difference. Young K pop idols may have fans ranging from teenagers to adults of 40-50 years of age (ie. “uncle fans”). This doesn’t happen in the western hemisphere. We also do not readily form nor join fan groups.

    K pop will remain a strange and non-comprehensible phenomenon in the west. Some may be curious enough to explore further into it, but the majority of others will merely quirk an eyebrow, giggle, and move on.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001095259238 Zusjes Lelong

    I agree with this. I once showed a video of bigbang (fantastic baby) to my friend, and she called them gay because they were wearring earrings and because Deasung had blond hair!
    can you believe it? And no matter what i said, she still was convinced that they were gay.
    So if this already is  a problem, can you imagine what it would be like with groups like shinee?

    • http://about.me/Purrfucktion Greatest Ever

      Me too. Just last night, I sent my friend an email with the Fantastic Baby video embed. He loved it but he said it was gay… when he’s an actual homosexual!

      • Anja

        Haha :D maybe you should’ve sent him Blue. To me the most normal boy group seems Bigbang but they’re still too feminine for my taste. I don’t like the Asian obsession with make-up. It’s horrible.

  • Anonymous

    I think this is why companies are shipping off their girl groups. Girls doing girly things can be accepted.

    But with the popularity of One Direction, the male groups might be able to gain popularity in the States as well.

  • http://twitter.com/amane_tengteng7 joanne tan

    Because the Asian culture is such that they usually maintain a distance with the opposite gender as opposed to the Western culture. Even amongst friends, you won’t see a guy and a girl hugging or linking arms unless they’re super close or its bf and gf. So its considered ok to do these things with people of the same gender since hey, you are both girls/guys anyway.

  • umulkhayr hussein

    Jaejoong and SHINee members in my eyes are also not as masculine as Westerners may percieve. But in my eyes and many others they are as beautiful as every other Channing Tatum wanna-be out there. ;)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/5MXM3LOV7HCSUK56SAA2CMHMPU JABA

    What is interesting is that these flower boys are manlier than manly men. What I mean is they practice martial arts, are not afraid to be in the kitchen and treat women as if we were God’s gift to them. Lee Jun Ki, who is my favourite go to guy for ultimate pretty, just finished his army service and can bench press some serious weights. Yet he has a face to make me jealous.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/5MXM3LOV7HCSUK56SAA2CMHMPU JABA

    We are merely fans. We do not sign these artists’ paychecks. Whoever does will dictate how they portray themselves. In the West head honchos are very set in their ways and old and with some really archaic ideas. If Kpop ever comes to the States they will have to change. Most of the American born  K-pop stars are happier performing in Asia and I bet it is because they are all too aware of how it would be for them if they had to perform here.

  • http://twitter.com/MRD_Smuffy Mahalia R-D

    I got into k-pop despite having the typical Westerner’s view on manliness, so I hope many others can change as well ^^

  • rosselinspire

    I really hope Shinee isn’t going to be marketed in the West, not because I don’t support them, but because I’m afraid of the treatment they’d get. At my school (in Australia), Kpop stars receive more ridicule than Justin Bieber and the Jonas Brothers combined. It’s gotten to the point where Kpop fans can’t talk about their music unless in the company of other fans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/eske.candia Eske Candia

    I do not really know these guys. I have seen posters of them though and have glimpses of them on TV and internet. I can say their image really do not go with the norm. I cannot really tell if they are homeoexuals (that’s their business anyway), but the way they look and dress is very effeminate. They actually remind me of Boy George, a popular gay icon in the 80s. A lot of musicians wear make-up and “glammed” themselves but they can still manage to appear masculine. It may be difficult for them to penetrate the Western market but who knows, they may continue the trend that German band, Tokio Hotel has started. Their androgynous looks has helped build mystique and has attracted hordes of female fans.

  • http://roseminty.tumblr.com/ Roseminty

    I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Not only does it imply that being gay is somehow offensive or wrong, but it also seems to suggest that femininity=gay and masculinity=straight. Um, wtf. Seriously.

    • Sarah Hammel

      That’s actually the exact opposite of what the article states. You should finish reading it.

      • http://roseminty.tumblr.com/ Roseminty

        You’re right; I was too quick to judge. Sometimes my temper gets the best of me. I did read the whole thing, and I take back what I said about masculinity and femininity. But I still dislike the first couple sentences. If someone called a Kpop guy “gay,” I would be neither infuriated nor offended. I may attempt to explain the Kpop culture and that that’s just how a lot of guys look (gay or not), but I wouldn’t jump to the idol’s defense. As Johnny Galecki said, “Why defend yourself [or in this case, a Kpop idol] against something that isn’t offensive?”

  • http://twitter.com/TianaMaryHelena Tiana Birmingham

    Good article, you really understand Kpop and the relation between the pretty man idols and international fans

  • Cachet Bland

    I doubt that differences between the Western world and the Asian culture or K-Pop culture, will ever be fully excepted as one or equal. Of course their are people who except it, but in general I think most would disagree with the “flower boy” image or the idea that more muscle, body hair and a deep voice makes you a “real” man. That’s just how it is; not how it SHOULD be. Hopefully the two aspects can collide and except one another. I personally think Asian K-Pop boys are generally gorgeous and some are even better looking than girls. There are some boys though, that look too feminine for my taste like Infinite’s maknae Sung Jong, although I really do like him and think he really pretty. It makes me think sometimes if he would make a good boyfriend. It’s just a thought not a hurtful jab. I honestly like their culture and it’s sad that some people call it gay =_= Just because it’s different doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

    • Tornibbon91

      Out of curiosity what does being pretty have anything to do with being a good boyfriend?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000328195514 Cutee Mc Deck

    This is actually hilarious because…ummm you do know its mostly so called “westeners” that love kpop where as the asians love english music..and also..I swear I was about to fly through this fking computer if u placed tvxq/jyj/dbsk’s pictures there one more time..I actually find Jaejoong and Yoochun very masculine compared to other males around me and the males around me are 100% straight so I don’t get why Jaejoong is up here..umm so what did he ask for Pristine skin and the features God gave him? and I actually have never called Jaejoong pretty,beautiful or w.e the fk you called him I always called Jaejoong and Yoochun handsome and Yes Jaejoong is my bias but when I come down to stating the truth I always just let shit fly stripping away the bias title if I saw Jaejoong as Gay I would’ve said fk it your right he’s a tad girly or yeah he’s gay but to be honest..I have never seen Jaejoong as being girly..I apologise for him being so handsome and being born with his looks and so it makes u question his masculinity ummm yeah…I’m sorry -shrugs-

  • Averi Baker

    The article was interesting. I love SHINee to death, but as a Shawol I would not get mad if they are compared to Justin because I love him to death also. But really tho…did you have to use SHINee as examples so many times?.. I personally see a lot of masculine attributes in the SHINee members, but a couple of them just happen to have feminine features. 

    SM would be crazy to try to send SHINee out here. SNSD hasn’t even put a glitch in the US yet but that’s because the US don’t see them as anything new. We had boy and girl groups for years already, and they are not bringing anything new to the table. 

    There are many open-minded Westerners out here, but there is still a majority that won’t understand why we like K-POP. A lot of people I’ve let listen to kpop feel as if its nothing special, it sounds the same but just in another language. 

    Back to the article. lol. Not all K-pop idols are gay, and even if some are who are we to judge. If the west doesn’t like them then its their lost.

  • FlaminMinho

    SHINee should have debuted instead of the other groups. I think a boy band will work better than a girl band because most fans of kpop are girls. I think they should debut with Ring Ding Dong though and not Lucifer. 

  • Anja

    Honestly, I’ve hated this ‘pretty guy look’ since I’ve started watching
    kdramas. I like the dramas but the make-up thing annoys the hell out of
    me. I’m from Europe and guys here never wear make-up so it’s really
    weird seeing guys looking so effeminate. Sometimes I just feel like
    throwing up. How can you be attracted to someone that looks so girly. :D
    I’m always attracted to masculine guys. :P Out of the boy groups, Big
    Bang look the most manly but they could still not use any visible make
    up. An example of a video that looks utterly horrific to me is No Other
    by Super Junior. It looks so gay and they look so girly and the voices
    sound so girly … I’m really shocked anyone could call them idols. The
    only one from the group that looks okay is Donghae but he shouldn’t use
    such girly moves :S and of course he shouldn’t wear any make-up. And
    Siwon looks so ugly especially because I think he’s had a big plastic
    surgery done and it just looks horrible.

  • Anja

    Honestly, I’ve hated this ‘pretty guy look’ since I’ve started watching
    kdramas. I like the dramas but the make-up thing annoys the hell out of
    me. I’m from Europe and guys here never wear make-up so it’s really
    weird seeing guys looking so effeminate. Sometimes I just feel like
    throwing up. How can you be attracted to someone that looks so girly. :D
    I’m always attracted to masculine guys. :P Out of the boy groups, Big
    Bang look the most manly but they could still not use any visible make
    up. An example of a video that looks utterly horrific to me is No Other
    by Super Junior. It looks so gay and they look so girly and the voices
    sound so girly … I’m really shocked anyone could call them idols. The
    only one from the group that looks okay is Donghae but he shouldn’t use
    such girly moves :S and of course he shouldn’t wear any make-up. And
    Siwon looks so ugly especially because I think he’s had a big plastic
    surgery done and it just looks horrible.

  • Anja

    Honestly, I’ve hated this ‘pretty guy look’ since I’ve started watching
    kdramas. I like the dramas but the make-up thing annoys the hell out of
    me. I’m from Europe and guys here never wear make-up so it’s really
    weird seeing guys looking so effeminate. Sometimes I just feel like
    throwing up. How can you be attracted to someone that looks so girly. :D
    I’m always attracted to masculine guys. :P Out of the boy groups, Big
    Bang look the most manly but they could still not use any visible make
    up. An example of a video that looks utterly horrific to me is No Other
    by Super Junior. It looks so gay and they look so girly and the voices
    sound so girly … I’m really shocked anyone could call them idols. The
    only one from the group that looks okay is Donghae but he shouldn’t use
    such girly moves :S and of course he shouldn’t wear any make-up. And
    Siwon looks so ugly especially because I think he’s had a big plastic
    surgery done and it just looks horrible.

  • Anja

    Honestly, I’ve hated this ‘pretty guy look’ since I’ve started watching
    kdramas. I like the dramas but the make-up thing annoys the hell out of
    me. I’m from Europe and guys here never wear make-up so it’s really
    weird seeing guys looking so effeminate. Sometimes I just feel like
    throwing up. How can you be attracted to someone that looks so girly. :D
    I’m always attracted to masculine guys. :P Out of the boy groups, Big
    Bang look the most manly but they could still not use any visible make
    up. An example of a video that looks utterly horrific to me is No Other
    by Super Junior. It looks so gay and they look so girly and the voices
    sound so girly … I’m really shocked anyone could call them idols. The
    only one from the group that looks okay is Donghae but he shouldn’t use
    such girly moves :S and of course he shouldn’t wear any make-up. And
    Siwon looks so ugly especially because I think he’s had a big plastic
    surgery done and it just looks horrible.

  • Anja

    Honestly, I’ve hated this ‘pretty guy look’ since I’ve started watching
    kdramas. I like the dramas but the make-up thing annoys the hell out of
    me. I’m from Europe and guys here never wear make-up so it’s really
    weird seeing guys looking so effeminate. Sometimes I just feel like
    throwing up. How can you be attracted to someone that looks so girly. :D
    I’m always attracted to masculine guys. :P Out of the boy groups, Big
    Bang look the most manly but they could still not use any visible make
    up. An example of a video that looks utterly horrific to me is No Other
    by Super Junior. It looks so gay and they look so girly and the voices
    sound so girly … I’m really shocked anyone could call them idols. The
    only one from the group that looks okay is Donghae but he shouldn’t use
    such girly moves :S and of course he shouldn’t wear any make-up. And
    Siwon looks so ugly especially because I think he’s had a big plastic
    surgery done and it just looks horrible.

  • Anja

    Honestly, I’ve hated this ‘pretty guy look’ since I’ve started watching
    kdramas. I like the dramas but the make-up thing annoys the hell out of
    me. I’m from Europe and guys here never wear make-up so it’s really
    weird seeing guys looking so effeminate. Sometimes I just feel like
    throwing up. How can you be attracted to someone that looks so girly. :D
    I’m always attracted to masculine guys. :P Out of the boy groups, Big
    Bang look the most manly but they could still not use any visible make
    up. An example of a video that looks utterly horrific to me is No Other
    by Super Junior. It looks so gay and they look so girly and the voices
    sound so girly … I’m really shocked anyone could call them idols. The
    only one from the group that looks okay is Donghae but he shouldn’t use
    such girly moves :S and of course he shouldn’t wear any make-up. And
    Siwon looks so ugly especially because I think he’s had a big plastic
    surgery done and it just looks horrible.

  • Anja

    Honestly, I’ve hated this ‘pretty guy look’ since I’ve started watching
    kdramas. I like the dramas but the make-up thing annoys the hell out of
    me. I’m from Europe and guys here never wear make-up so it’s really
    weird seeing guys looking so effeminate. Sometimes I just feel like
    throwing up. How can you be attracted to someone that looks so girly. :D
    I’m always attracted to masculine guys. :P Out of the boy groups, Big
    Bang look the most manly but they could still not use any visible make
    up. An example of a video that looks utterly horrific to me is No Other
    by Super Junior. It looks so gay and they look so girly and the voices
    sound so girly … I’m really shocked anyone could call them idols. The
    only one from the group that looks okay is Donghae but he shouldn’t use
    such girly moves :S and of course he shouldn’t wear any make-up. And
    Siwon looks so ugly especially because I think he’s had a big plastic
    surgery done and it just looks horrible.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chibijoshie Josh Chinnery

    I really never saw the point of equating feminine men to gay; it’s ridiculous to me. You’re very right that it’s done out of spite and jealousy, because let’s be honest; those pretty boys could bag more girls in an hour than the average Joe could in a year.

    Also, I disagree that people are less likely to call GD or T.O.P gay. Now, I am not implying these guys are gay in any way, but G-D is a fashionista; male fashionistas are ALWAYS called gay, regardless of any other feature or attribute they posses. Watch any video of the dude (except the BIGBANG drama parodies) and you’ll see that GD has a very masculine demeanor, but no; he’s fashionable, so he’s gay. And T.O.P will be called gay because of his association with GD and he likes to make weird facial expressions.

  • http://twitter.com/catdictator злодей

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  • http://twitter.com/yaongmeow 야옹 야옹

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  • Azumichan

    This article was very interesting, informative but most of all made me think. As a Japanese – born in US, I was pretty okay and accepted Kpop quite easily. But that could be because my sister was a mega kpop fan. Although I’m a YGstan, I was first introduced to kpop through SNSD and the former TVXQ before the split. I thought SNSD was overly girly, but I could relate to it b/c of AKB48 and the like. However, for TVXQ…I thought they were incredibly talented vocal-wise but I was admittedly pretty shocked with JYJ’s Jaejoong’s “prettiness”, “effeminate looks”. I knew Arashi, Hey Sey Jump!, but they were what the Japanese call your typical “yasai-otoka (vegetable boys)” meaning the not so muscular, skinny, studious types which is whats “hot” in Japan these past years. However, they still didn’t ooze the extremely effeminate appeal. i would have compared Jaejoong to Gackt or Hyde but they definitely have manliness/sex appeal oozing out of them. Despite their extremely pretty looks.

    I think what’s a critical part is about kpop boy-groups is the blatant use of make-up. I won’t say Jpop/UK/American male artists don’t use them – cause that would be a lie. However, Kpop definately tops the othe countries’ artists usage concerning make-up. They use A LOT and when i showed one kpop boy group to my mom, the first thing she said was, “wow. that’s a lot of make up”. It’s different if it they were a visual-key rock band, because that’s part of the music genre: the elaborate fashion, make-up and great vocal-skill. i.e. Gackt, and Hyde of L’arc En Ciel/VAMPS.

    Still, the group that might make it will be groups that have a beaastly image or if some of them went Solo: i.e., Taeyang of BigBang

  • Nade Sade

    “But skinship and cross-dressing will probably never be liked, understood, or accepted.” I disagree with this statement. There’s this American tv show called Supernatural that has mastered the art of female fan service exploiting skinship between its pretty boy main characters, 2 of them who happen to be brothers… yeah, straight and non-incenstuous as they may be the Dean/Sam, Dean/Cas etc fanservice is heavy in that show, the show even addresses the former explicitly and the latter with obvious tongue-in-cheek jokes. Add this to the fact that Western female fanfiction authors have been shipping straight characters from tv shows for years and you have a growing awareness, and growing understanding, on the part of tv producers etc, on the desire for skinship between attractive, coded as straight male characters. It’s not perfect, and there’s still a lot more understanding to be done, but in the words of the Biebs, I believe this is a ‘never say never’ type deal.

  • Kana

    I’m a fan of a female idol group, I’m a girl but I have never ever ever and probably never ever in a million years fawn over a male idol group/male idol. People from the States aren’t the only ones dissing them male k-idols but pretty much anyone from any race, it really depends on the person’s preference. I myself, I am not from the US but I gotta admit I have said shitty stuff about them male idols (yes that includes jpop/cpop idols) but really it depends on the person.

  • Keith B

    “God took special care in creating him…” god created nothing, stop being delusional and stupid. Stupid men that smoked Hash wandering the deserts created “god(s)” because they, like you, were too stupid to understand nature, evolution and science. There isn’t an ounce of proof of any god or gods, but there’s plenty of proof of stupid people that believe this delusion.